Same sex marriages. Your opinon? Volume two.

[Chewbacca]

No need to get nasty Yorick, proof was demanded and I provided. Nobody said I should put that proof in my own words. I chose to provide proof from a site I found a while back. Your sarcastic nastiness about my cut and paste job is unbecoming. Be careful what you ask for, you might just get it.

I am unsure about what botch job you are refering too, maybe your just upset that more proof was provided than you imagined. Perhaps you mistook the format, each point of contradiction is accented by a "vs".

example-The first point illustrates how in several passages killing is condemed but in others killing is endorsed, even sanctioned by God. Clearly contradictions.

BTW- the author of the list of contradictions is a Preacher turned aethist.
You can follow the link to a list of his books and a personal Bio if you would like to check the credientials.

BTW-If it really upsets anyone I will happlity delete the post and assume that I am free to beleive the Bible has contradictions with-out demands for proof.

[ 08-12-2003, 02:48 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[Yorick]

Is God omnipotent? Jeremiah 32:27 "Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me? Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." vs. Judges 1:19 "And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

The above is meant to prove God's not omnipotent? Out of the entire Bible, out of the alleged THOUSANDS of contradictions, the only attempt at proving the bible contradicts re. omnipotence is where "Judah couldn't dislodge the enemy because they had iron chariots?"

Now, I can say God is with me, like he was with Judah. If I can't park in a carspace because someone else has parked there, how does that prove God is not omnipotent?

Bewildering to say the least.

[Yorick]

Does God accept human sacrifice? Deuteronomy 12:31 "Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods." vs. Genesis 22:2 "And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of."

It was a test of what was Abraham's 'God' for he had put having a child ahead of God's will before (by having Ishmael). Isaac was NOT killed. He lived and bore children himself. God did NOT require human sacrifice.

Exodus 22:29 "For thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors; the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me."

Ooh. Look at this comment in the translation notes of the bible -

22:29 The meaning of the Hebrew for this phrase is uncertain.

How I read it is it's a dedication. There is nothing in the bible anywhere that suggests the Hebrews killed their firstborn sons as an offering to God. I repeat, the bible must be taken as a WHOLE.

Judges 11:30-39 "And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hand, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon . . . and the Lord delivered them into his hands. . . . And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: . . . And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed."

Had Jephthah studied Gods word he would have seen that that was an abomination. God did not require it. He had directly decreed not to do that. Jephthah cornered himself with his unthinking vow.

Bear in mind, the bible often simply records events without passing Judgement. ALL the Judges were flawed characters. Sampson, Ehud, Gideon, this guy Jepthah. One of the macro messages found by reading all Judges is that God can and does use flawed people. And he restores. He continually forgave Israel again and again. He continually used flawed people with flawed methods to rescue Israel from plights they only brought themselves on.

Jephthah could have just asked God for victory. He could have had the faith that God would have answered his prayer. Instead, he made an absolutist deal. Stupid mistake. We can learn many, many things from that single story. It doesn't show a contradiction however.

II Samuel 21:8-14 "But the king [David] took the two sons of Rizpah . . . and the five sons of Michal . . . and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest . . . And after that God was intreated for the land."

It quite clearly states that the Gibeonites (Israels enemies) killed these guys. David didn't offer them as a sacrifice at all. No contradiction.

Hebrews 10:10-12 " . . . we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ . . . But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God." I Corinthians 5:7 " . . . For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us."

How is God himself dying for all humanity a contradiction of an edict for humans not to sacrifice humans to God?

It's bizzarre.

The death and ressurection of Jesus Christ are what enable eternal life. It's God, as a perfect sinless human, taking the consequence of sin - death - upon himself.

Again, there is no contradiction.

No contradiction re. Omnipotence, Human sacrifice, and "do not murder".

Again, I'll post more later.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: the author of the list of contradictions is a Preacher turned aethist.

And have you read C.S.Lewis? The atheist professor turned literary 'preacher'?

[Yorick]

Were women and men created equal? Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." vs. Genesis 2:18,23 "And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. . . . And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

The second elaborates on the first. I see no contradiction. He CREATED woman out of what he'd created man. Making them equal (even though equality is not mentioned in the first passage).

I see no contradiction.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: the author of the list of contradictions is a Preacher turned aethist.

And have you read C.S.Lewis? The atheist professor turned literary 'preacher'? [/QUOTE]Oh yeah, The Chronicles of Narnia are some of my favorite books. I read them annually. Why?

[Yorick]

Deuteronomy 6:4 "The Lord our God is one Lord." vs. 1.Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image." 2.Genesis 3:22 "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil." 3.I John 5:7 "And there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." It does no good to claim that "Let us" is the magisterial "we." Such usage implies inclusivity of all authorities under a king's leadership. Invoking the Trinity solves nothing because such an idea is more contradictory than the problem it attempts to solve.

1. Trinity. A triune God

2. Speaking about either trinity or angels. ANgels also knew good and evil, and it was in the matter of good and evil, that man was like "them". (Angels AND God)

3. Trinity. A triune God.

Whether or not Barker deeoms invoking the Trinity does nothing, these verses are part of the PROOF of the Trinity. Rather than the Trinity being used as a defense, these verses are key factors in providing the biblical concept of the Trinity.

To simply dismiss such arguing is ridiculous. A triune God makes perfect sense. Barker shows he never grasped the concept, and placed human limitations on the Creator. Consequently, throughout nature and in conceptuality, triunity, or biunity exists.

A (singular) couple (plural) is one such conceptual example of biunity.
A trio is an example of conceptual triunity.

Plainly obvious and not difficult to grasp whatsoever. Barker needs to revise his "freethought" methinks.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: the author of the list of contradictions is a Preacher turned aethist.

And have you read C.S.Lewis? The atheist professor turned literary 'preacher'? [/QUOTE]Oh yeah, The Chronicles of Narnia are some of my favorite books. I read them annually. Why? [/QUOTE]Try "Mere Christianity".

[Chewbacca]

I must say this is the most off topic I have ever seen a thread, and I have seen them taken way off topic before. We should get an award or something.

[Yorick]

Does God live in light? I Timothy 6:15-16 " . . . the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach . . ." James 1:17 " . . . the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." John 12:35 "Then Jesus saith unto them, . . . he that walketh in darkness knoweth not wither he goeth." Job 18:18 "He [the wicked] shall be driven from light into darkness, and chased out of the world." Daniel 2:22 "He [God] knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him." See also Psalm 143:3, II Corinthians 6:14, and Hebrews 12:18-22. vs. I Kings 8:12 "Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness." (Repeated in II Chronicles 6:1) II Samuel 22:12 "And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies." Psalm 18:11 "He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies." Psalm 97:1-2 "The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice . . . clouds and darkness are round about him."

Seeing as God is both omnipresent and omniscient, God can live in both light and darkness at the same time. Remembering of course that God is outside time.

If he in fact has a physical form at all!!

Barker is again, attempting to prescribe human limitations on what God is. We don't know WHAT God is, we know WHO God is. Barker again shows his limited concepts of God. It's no wonder he became an atheist if this page of his is any indication of the limited entity he believed his God to be.

Again. Some "freethought" was required.