Stealth Party

Killer_Rogues · 10-11-2003, 05:06 PM

Hello all. I've been playing Wiz 8 for a few months now, having made it to the peak with one party thus far. My current party is a stealth party, consisting of a ninja, monk, and rogue. Thus far, i have made it to trynton with only a few problem areas, but nothing major. i am attempting to run through this time with no NPCs and the fights have been LONG. With no one to deal out too much damage, the fights easily last 20 or so rounds, especially with 8 juggarnaughts. the main problem is my monk, while raising dex and spd, gets tired really quickly. with long fights, this means lots of stamina potions. I was just wondering if anyone else has run a similar party with similar problems. On the plus side, my skills are building extremely fast; on teh down side, when i forget to watch closely, the monk goes unconscious. I'm hoping that as the stealth on each rises, then the unlocked reflection, this party will be able to dodge just about anything but magical atacks. Let me know what you guys think.

Rezdude03 · 10-11-2003, 06:21 PM

i suppose u should look toward building their vitality as well. stealth (but mostly evasion) takes a lot of stamina. if they have no energy to pull it off, they're dead meat. a clever idea however. just make sure u get vitality up and have them drink plenty of fluids (i.e. stamina potions). GOOD LUCK!

AND WELCOME TO THE BOARD! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Ziggurat · 10-11-2003, 09:31 PM

Let us know how it goes. You have alchemy and psionic with some divinity. You will have a rough time later on without having certain other protections. I think a three party is hard enough, tried it once and made it. I think Valkerie, Faerie Ninja and Bishop. Wasn't too easy.

Halsey · 10-12-2003, 06:04 AM

Good luck with your party. I've taken several 'stealth parties' of three or four, but in all of them, I raised their stealth to at least 70-80 before leaving the Monestary. If you're taking them out without the 'gamey' tactic of fighting the little crabs, you're tough! Zig is right about having a tough time unless you really attempt to pump up their magic.

10-12-2003, 06:34 AM

i took exactly the same party configuration to the peak just a few weeks ago. hobbit ninja, lizardman rogue, and human monk. in my case, i built spd and str for all three, until maxed, then switched to vitality. after that, then senses, then dex. so although your build style is different i suspect you'll run into some similar issues. so here's some thoughts:

- yes, stamina is a huge issue, particularly early. my solution for this was to buy up all the rest all scrolls i could afford at braffit's and keep 3 on each of them. fortunately, they all had artifacts in the 20's by the time i hit the arnika road for trynton, so we rarely fizzled. also, keep 5 pickmeups on each of them. your ninja should be able to mix those (alchemy: 20) so they wont cost you an arm and a leg.

- later, the frequent criticals (ninja and monk get naturals, the rogue was using fang/stilleto) will solve many of the stamina and long fight problems. but build strength so you get damage multiples, extra stamina, and the hit/penetrate bonuses.

- the next biggest problem you're going to encounter is magic resistance. this group has low resistances to begin with, and no access to the mage/bard buff of magic screen. i suggest a) buy one or more amulets of pro magic from crock, which have 5 charges of magic screen (pwr 4), b) build the ninja's earth realm (element shield) and the monk's divine realm(soul shield) early and often, because you'll need to cast those frequently later, and c) concentrate on items that offer magic resistances, such as the cloak of many colours, instead of other bonuses, such as the cape of protection or cloak of stealth.

in the end, all 3 were equally effective, with the monk and rogue tied with 550 kills, and the ninja having around 480 or so. and the party was hugely fun, with massive initiative and running capabilities. i was somewhat disappointed that all 3 having 95+ stealth and wearing only robes would not have more advantages in approaching monsters, relative to non-stealth parties wearing only robes who seemed just as effective.

ChaosTheorist · 10-12-2003, 04:50 PM

Quote:

i am attempting to run through this time with no NPCs and the fights have been LONG. With no one to deal out too much damage, the fights easily last 20 or so rounds, especially with 8 juggarnaughts. the main problem is my monk, while raising dex and spd, gets tired really quickly. with long fights, this means lots of stamina potions.

Stamina and low damage are definitely the issues with these parties. I'm currently running the obligatory solo Faerie Ninja; do you have any idea how long it takes to nibble a Metallic Slime to death with a Faerie Wand and a Shillelah? How about *five* of them? Yeah. Eventually Critical Strike kicks in, but it takes a lot of 0-point and 1-point hits to get there. I routinely had battles go 60+ rounds in the Monastery.

dplax · 10-13-2003, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Killer_Rogues:
Hello all. I've been playing Wiz 8 for a few months now, having made it to the peak with one party thus far. My current party is a stealth party, consisting of a ninja, monk, and rogue. Thus far, i have made it to trynton with only a few problem areas, but nothing major. i am attempting to run through this time with no NPCs and the fights have been LONG. With no one to deal out too much damage, the fights easily last 20 or so rounds, especially with 8 juggarnaughts. the main problem is my monk, while raising dex and spd, gets tired really quickly. with long fights, this means lots of stamina potions. I was just wondering if anyone else has run a similar party with similar problems. On the plus side, my skills are building extremely fast; on teh down side, when i forget to watch closely, the monk goes unconscious. I'm hoping that as the stealth on each rises, then the unlocked reflection, this party will be able to dodge just about anything but magical atacks. Let me know what you guys think.

Later on the rogue should get to be a very powerful meleer with dual poison daggers or stilettos.
And welcome to the boards Killer_Rogues

Killer_Rogues · 10-14-2003, 11:42 PM

Update on stealth party:
They are doing much better than they were earlier and it has definately paid off to increase dex and stealth as much as possible. there are sometimes when opponents just sit there as i crush them, particularly some of the bigger, 'dumber' creatures (swallowers, hogars, goloms). the ninja is lvl 14, monk 15 and rogue 16, with all three having unlocked reflection. The rogue is becoming more and more the brute force in my party, as i expected her to be.
I have to note that rogues have been my favorite class since beginning my playing and this one, while i'm developing her a little differently, is not disapointing me. I have decided to not use the cursed thieves daggers because i needed more long-range threat from her. so after using two poignards, then a stilleto/poinard and raising my dueling skills, i started dropping a few points here and there into swords, and she is now using an enchanted longsword and a stiletto. the stiletto has given me a surprising number of INSTANT KILLS [img]smile.gif[/img] while the sword damage is considerable (she unlocked power strike a level or two ago). As for the hybrids, they are doing remarkably well. the monk is still strugging sometimes with stamina, but i'll take the 8+ attacks per round any day - i just keep plenty of hvy stam potions and pickmeup potions handy. his magic is also coming along nicely, although it is much to focused on mental and i'm working on diversifying into fire. the ninja has become my little utility character, blending thrown attacks, magic, and bombs/powders very nicely. while i have spread her points a little thin in the realms, she has proven rather efective.

Money was surprisingly scarce early in the game. i found that i was using all the hvy heals i was mixing, being that vitality was not being raised in any of the characters and their HP was relatively low. But after i made i killed the don and sold the CoC (the ninja is a felpur), the cash situation has been gretly improved. also, on the way to or from arnika, i was ambushed by about 20 rogues - i found a nice little crevace and managed to work up the magic on the monk and ninja while my rogue crushed the leftovers. i slept and then 19 more appeared - it was great for cash as well as building my skills (not a fan of 'alternative methods' for building skills - i'd rather earn them as i go, but no offence to those that use them - whatever makes the game fun for you!)

on another post, some were discussing stealth - i would definately say that it helps the character with it and hurts others around without it - one reason i'm not using NPCs (i picked up a few just to rob them and in the process ran into some fights - they were basically fodder as my guys trounced the enemies unscathed - three died and i ditched the remains (myles, rsf, & the trynnie gadgie)). i ran a two-person party with a rogue & bard and the poor bard was always getting beat up - it's what gave me the idea for the stealth party. so, in a large party, one or two with stealth is fine, but for smaller parties, it makes for a ver bloody rpc.

well, there's my long update for anyone still reading this thread. we'll see how it goes from here.

10-15-2003, 08:37 PM

great update, KR. i'd completely forgotten that high-stealth benefit of everyone standing around. it's totally huge through the mid game. later, as the monsters get tougher, they're harder to fool.

my similar party has both ninja and monk throwing, as well as the rogue using crossbow. by the end game, they were as deadly from range as a beefier party all using crossbows.

later, when you get a better sword for your rogue, you'll find her really doing the lion's share of damage. but those multiple attacks, and natural crits, really add up for the monk and ninja. so i'll be interested to see if you have a similar experience as i have - that all 3 contribute pretty equally to kills.

keep us posted!

The Procrastinator · 10-16-2003, 07:14 PM

I had the exact same party, rogue-monk-ninja, but I got bored of it quite soon because it was just too fragile. I made the mistake of focusing exclusively on speed and dex and choosing lightweight races (hobbit, faerie, felpurr). Maybe I'll try another stealth trio sometimes, but I'll put a lot more points on strength. More damage, more stamina. Dex is cool, but those races have high dex and these classes have stealth anyway, which is the whole point of this party. I'd say strength is absolutely essential with a stealth trio. Of course, a bishop would make this party extremely more powerful, but it would miss the point somehow.

10-11-2003, 06:21 PM	#2
Rezdude03 Manshoon Join Date: July 9, 2003 Location: New York Age: 36 Posts: 177	i suppose u should look toward building their vitality as well. stealth (but mostly evasion) takes a lot of stamina. if they have no energy to pull it off, they're dead meat. a clever idea however. just make sure u get vitality up and have them drink plenty of fluids (i.e. stamina potions). GOOD LUCK! AND WELCOME TO THE BOARD! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] __________________ \"We three, though born on different days, swear an oath of brotherhood\"<br />\"And vow to die the same year, same month and the very same day\"<br />\"Come, my Brothers\' destiny awaits!\"<br />-Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Liu Bei/ Dynasty Warriors 4

10-11-2003, 09:31 PM	#3
Ziggurat Symbol of Cyric Join Date: November 4, 2001 Location: Baltimore, Md Age: 71 Posts: 1,106	Let us know how it goes. You have alchemy and psionic with some divinity. You will have a rough time later on without having certain other protections. I think a three party is hard enough, tried it once and made it. I think Valkerie, Faerie Ninja and Bishop. Wasn't too easy. __________________ How are you today, Citizen?

10-16-2003, 07:14 PM	#10
The Procrastinator Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: July 2, 2003 Location: Montréal Age: 55 Posts: 37	I had the exact same party, rogue-monk-ninja, but I got bored of it quite soon because it was just too fragile. I made the mistake of focusing exclusively on speed and dex and choosing lightweight races (hobbit, faerie, felpurr). Maybe I'll try another stealth trio sometimes, but I'll put a lot more points on strength. More damage, more stamina. Dex is cool, but those races have high dex and these classes have stealth anyway, which is the whole point of this party. I'd say strength is absolutely essential with a stealth trio. Of course, a bishop would make this party extremely more powerful, but it would miss the point somehow. __________________ Pourquoi remettre à demain ce qu\'on peut faire la semaine prochaine?

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10-11-2003, 05:06 PM	#1
Killer_Rogues Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: October 11, 2003 Location: Virginia Age: 45 Posts: 10	Hello all. I've been playing Wiz 8 for a few months now, having made it to the peak with one party thus far. My current party is a stealth party, consisting of a ninja, monk, and rogue. Thus far, i have made it to trynton with only a few problem areas, but nothing major. i am attempting to run through this time with no NPCs and the fights have been LONG. With no one to deal out too much damage, the fights easily last 20 or so rounds, especially with 8 juggarnaughts. the main problem is my monk, while raising dex and spd, gets tired really quickly. with long fights, this means lots of stamina potions. I was just wondering if anyone else has run a similar party with similar problems. On the plus side, my skills are building extremely fast; on teh down side, when i forget to watch closely, the monk goes unconscious. I'm hoping that as the stealth on each rises, then the unlocked reflection, this party will be able to dodge just about anything but magical atacks. Let me know what you guys think.

10-12-2003, 06:04 AM	#4
Halsey Dungeon Master Join Date: May 11, 2003 Location: Pa. Age: 74 Posts: 53	Good luck with your party. I've taken several 'stealth parties' of three or four, but in all of them, I raised their stealth to at least 70-80 before leaving the Monestary. If you're taking them out without the 'gamey' tactic of fighting the little crabs, you're tough! Zig is right about having a tough time unless you really attempt to pump up their magic.

10-12-2003, 06:34 AM	#5
sultan Guest Posts: n/a	i took exactly the same party configuration to the peak just a few weeks ago. hobbit ninja, lizardman rogue, and human monk. in my case, i built spd and str for all three, until maxed, then switched to vitality. after that, then senses, then dex. so although your build style is different i suspect you'll run into some similar issues. so here's some thoughts: - yes, stamina is a huge issue, particularly early. my solution for this was to buy up all the rest all scrolls i could afford at braffit's and keep 3 on each of them. fortunately, they all had artifacts in the 20's by the time i hit the arnika road for trynton, so we rarely fizzled. also, keep 5 pickmeups on each of them. your ninja should be able to mix those (alchemy: 20) so they wont cost you an arm and a leg. - later, the frequent criticals (ninja and monk get naturals, the rogue was using fang/stilleto) will solve many of the stamina and long fight problems. but build strength so you get damage multiples, extra stamina, and the hit/penetrate bonuses. - the next biggest problem you're going to encounter is magic resistance. this group has low resistances to begin with, and no access to the mage/bard buff of magic screen. i suggest a) buy one or more amulets of pro magic from crock, which have 5 charges of magic screen (pwr 4), b) build the ninja's earth realm (element shield) and the monk's divine realm(soul shield) early and often, because you'll need to cast those frequently later, and c) concentrate on items that offer magic resistances, such as the cloak of many colours, instead of other bonuses, such as the cape of protection or cloak of stealth. in the end, all 3 were equally effective, with the monk and rogue tied with 550 kills, and the ninja having around 480 or so. and the party was hugely fun, with massive initiative and running capabilities. i was somewhat disappointed that all 3 having 95+ stealth and wearing only robes would not have more advantages in approaching monsters, relative to non-stealth parties wearing only robes who seemed just as effective.

10-14-2003, 11:42 PM	#8
Killer_Rogues Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: October 11, 2003 Location: Virginia Age: 45 Posts: 10	Update on stealth party: They are doing much better than they were earlier and it has definately paid off to increase dex and stealth as much as possible. there are sometimes when opponents just sit there as i crush them, particularly some of the bigger, 'dumber' creatures (swallowers, hogars, goloms). the ninja is lvl 14, monk 15 and rogue 16, with all three having unlocked reflection. The rogue is becoming more and more the brute force in my party, as i expected her to be. I have to note that rogues have been my favorite class since beginning my playing and this one, while i'm developing her a little differently, is not disapointing me. I have decided to not use the cursed thieves daggers because i needed more long-range threat from her. so after using two poignards, then a stilleto/poinard and raising my dueling skills, i started dropping a few points here and there into swords, and she is now using an enchanted longsword and a stiletto. the stiletto has given me a surprising number of INSTANT KILLS [img]smile.gif[/img] while the sword damage is considerable (she unlocked power strike a level or two ago). As for the hybrids, they are doing remarkably well. the monk is still strugging sometimes with stamina, but i'll take the 8+ attacks per round any day - i just keep plenty of hvy stam potions and pickmeup potions handy. his magic is also coming along nicely, although it is much to focused on mental and i'm working on diversifying into fire. the ninja has become my little utility character, blending thrown attacks, magic, and bombs/powders very nicely. while i have spread her points a little thin in the realms, she has proven rather efective. Money was surprisingly scarce early in the game. i found that i was using all the hvy heals i was mixing, being that vitality was not being raised in any of the characters and their HP was relatively low. But after i made i killed the don and sold the CoC (the ninja is a felpur), the cash situation has been gretly improved. also, on the way to or from arnika, i was ambushed by about 20 rogues - i found a nice little crevace and managed to work up the magic on the monk and ninja while my rogue crushed the leftovers. i slept and then 19 more appeared - it was great for cash as well as building my skills (not a fan of 'alternative methods' for building skills - i'd rather earn them as i go, but no offence to those that use them - whatever makes the game fun for you!) on another post, some were discussing stealth - i would definately say that it helps the character with it and hurts others around without it - one reason i'm not using NPCs (i picked up a few just to rob them and in the process ran into some fights - they were basically fodder as my guys trounced the enemies unscathed - three died and i ditched the remains (myles, rsf, & the trynnie gadgie)). i ran a two-person party with a rogue & bard and the poor bard was always getting beat up - it's what gave me the idea for the stealth party. so, in a large party, one or two with stealth is fine, but for smaller parties, it makes for a ver bloody rpc. well, there's my long update for anyone still reading this thread. we'll see how it goes from here.

10-15-2003, 08:37 PM	#9
sultan Guest Posts: n/a	great update, KR. i'd completely forgotten that high-stealth benefit of everyone standing around. it's totally huge through the mid game. later, as the monsters get tougher, they're harder to fool. my similar party has both ninja and monk throwing, as well as the rogue using crossbow. by the end game, they were as deadly from range as a beefier party all using crossbows. later, when you get a better sword for your rogue, you'll find her really doing the lion's share of damage. but those multiple attacks, and natural crits, really add up for the monk and ninja. so i'll be interested to see if you have a similar experience as i have - that all 3 contribute pretty equally to kills. keep us posted!

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