Am I a total idiot?

[Ragash]

OK, here it is:

I've tried starting a successful game of Wizardry 8 three times (the third time being somewhat successful actually). My problem is this: I just don't understand the game!

My first party got wiped out basically every fight (2 samurai, a ninja, a gadgeteer, a mage and a priest) so I had to reload.. after being slaughtered by poppies on Arnika road for the umpteenth time I gave up and started a new, more combat oriented group (I thought) featuring characters like oh... fighters, ninjas, samurai.. then I found that I lacked healing ability and some other essentials, like magic buffs. After a horrible dual class and some hair-ripping, I decided to try one more time. That's when I came up with this wonderful combination: 2 dracon fighters, 1 hobbit rogue, 1 mook ranger, 1 dwarven priest and an elven mage.

They too were getting sorely owned in the beginning of the game, but now at level 10 or so things are looking up. Barely. I can kill fairies without anyone dying at least.

I've browsed the forum countless times looking for clues to success, but without avail. Don't get me wrong, all the tips are probably great. My theory is that I'm just a total retard when it comes to Wizardry. Consider also that I'm actually playing on EASY! After dying 20 times on my way to Arnika I actually thought the game was bugged and had locked on hard or something... aaaanyway, my question is this:

Is there a foolproof party? A party that features basically all the classes and races you need for the kickass weapons and items? AND a party that doesn't die around every corner?

I know this is a tough one, but I'm desperate [img]tongue.gif[/img] I love the game (for some odd reason) and I'd really like to be able to play it through...

And I'm not a retard at every game, I've successfully played through every Might and Magic game since number 4, all the Baldur's Gate games (including the Icewind Dale series) and a number of other AD&D games like the EOB series... it's just that in Wizardry I'm friggin stumped [img]tongue.gif[/img]

So... rant all you want, call me a total idiot n00b, flame me, piss on my plants and kill my cat, but PLEASE! Give me an example of the ultimate party [img]tongue.gif[/img]

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I played through Morrowind lots of times too, never having any problems with that... a theory I have is that Wizardry is very non-linear, is that so? That would explain my failure at quests and such, simply because I approach it the wrong way... anyway... doh [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 06-13-2003, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Ragash ]

[Ziggurat]

The EASY answer is, of course, yes. You are an idiot. The REAL answer is that this game has strategic and tactical elements that make it more complicated than it seems. In my first game, I kept getting killed on the way to Arnika. Umpteen strong plants, wasps and bandits, not to mention soldier ants with a killer queen were wiping me out. So, the first trick I learned is not to level up past lev 3 until you get to Arnika's gate. Second is to run if you can if you are outmatched. Third is to use the landscape, hug those mountains and find those crevices to make them attack one by one.

Others: Avoid the Arnika-Trynton road at night if you don't like thousands of chomping bats. Go back to the previous area and rest a cycle or two to generate different monsters. You get my drift. It's not you. This game was designed to have no easy way to win. It requires a balanced party with some strengths and some thoughtful maneuvering. My two cents. P.S. Leave the cat alone, he has powerful friends on the planet Catalopia and they would NOT be amused.

[ 06-13-2003, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: Ziggurat ]

[Nightowl2]

Yep, the game is non-linear. However, that oughtn't to be a problem, since the Might & Magic games are like that, too.

Anyway, from the monastery to Arnika, your party should be no higher than level 5. Some would say even lower. The critters are based, in part, on your level. I say "in part" because there will be areas your group will find too tough for awhile.

Save before you leave the monastery. Monsters are a random mix. If you find the creatures too hard no matter what, you can restore and try again.

There's a house you can't get into along the road. I've been able to rest up behind it without being disturbed.

Arnika should not be all that difficult. Stay there awhile and work on building up levels and skills.

As it is, your main problem may be poor development of your characters rather than a poor mix of classes. It's been too long since I played for me to recall all the details, but I'm sure some of the others here will post some tips for bringing your merry band up to peak performance.

Nightowl2

[Ragash]

Actually, I've made it through Arnika, did most of the things there (I think, who knows? ) and went to Trynton.. now I'm running around the branches, finding marbles and orbs and balls not knowing WHAT to do.. then I found a gadgeteer who asked me if wossname sent me and told me to kill some rats. You probably know what I'm talking about, but the above is about as much as I know of the matter [img]tongue.gif[/img] I'm not asking for an explanation of it, I'm just giving an example of how I confused I am.

And I never found the Might and Magic games linear in that way... you'd get a quest telling you where to go, and if you were too weak to do it you'd just go somewhere else, find another quest, do that instead, level up and THEN come back to do the first quest.. in Wizardry, the monsters level up when you do which makes the strategic element even harder, and I was never a Red Alert wiz And I suck at chess [img]tongue.gif[/img]

So... no elite party suggestions?

[Ziggurat]

I'm sure many here can give you their suggestions on elite best parties. For me, using a party of 6, I like to have 2 or 3 strong mellee characters. I don't go for fighters mostly (no magic for healing), but they are the best. Next is Lord and Valkyrie. Lord has a dual weapon bonus, Valkyrie can survive two deaths in a battle before she really snuffs it. A Rogue is a necessity and they are great fighters with their backstab which amplifies the power of the attack (2x or even 5x later). For the buff spells you need a bishop. Some go for mage and priest (and alchemist or psionic). A bishop or two is enough. The bard is easier to develop than a gadgeteer and has great instruments later on. Even the first one, Sleep, is helpful in the early game.

So I would say a good starting party would be (races are just my preferences): a Lord (Lizardman, Human, Rawulf...), Valkyrie (Human or Felpur), Rogue (Hobbit or Human), Bard (Hobbit or Human) and Bishop (Elf or Faerie). That leaves one slot for your choice (Ranger, Gadgeteer, Alchemist, Priest, Samurai, Ninja, ...).

IMO, a strongest party would be 3 fighters, a rogue and two bishops (with each bishop specializing in opposite magics). But this would be not quite as fun.

[ 06-14-2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Ziggurat ]

[Ragash]

Interesting, you classify a rogue as a fighter? It makes sense, actually... thanks a lot, Ziggurat, I'm going to try that now [img]smile.gif[/img] More suggestions appreciated! [img]smile.gif[/img]

EDIT: Creating the party as I write this, I think I'll go with the supplementary char of a fairy ninja to be able to use the cane of corpus I've heard so much about [img]tongue.gif[/img] I'll also have a good throwing weapons char... good plan?

[ 06-13-2003, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Ragash ]

[Cornbread]

One thing you might not have noticed is the party formation. Wizardry is the first game I saw where you traveled in a group but chjaracter placement mattered. Click on the little circle with the dots in it and arrange your party to defend you weak casters with your fighter types. Then like the other guys said keep close to the walls and watch your radar, and as soon as the mythology notice comes up start trying to manuever around to get a good fighting spot. Keep your spellcasters casting as much as possible and get a bard for your first time through, cuz the 2 instruments he gets at the start are a huge boost. Anyways, it takes a little getting used to. But choose missle shield as soon as possible and always cast it and the other boosts.

Cornbread

[Ragash]

Thanks Cornbread, I did notice the battle formation thingy, but I never actually rearranged it in battle.. mostly because I was surrounded I realize now, but with the tip concerning walls and crevices things are bound to get easier.

Also, speaking of spells.. which ones are critical to choose in the beginning and which ones can I buy once I arrive at Arnika? I mean, which ones are CRITICAL to learn and which ones are RECOMMENDED for purchase.. I understand if a spell like Light is unnecessary to waste a spell pick on, obviously.

[Ragash]

Wow, already Elite Waterdeep Guard and still a useless noob [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[tuckyboy]

Ragash,

You are not a total idiot. You are, however, someone who did not read and understand the Game Manual. Read the manual! The description of Party Formation and combat is found on pages 70-71.

If you want to know how to correctly develop characters, a good site to read is: http://www.geocities.com/jandrall/

There are many sites that provide walkthroughs for this difficult game. I don't recommend them. The game is much more satisfying if you tough it out.

The party that I'd recommend to you (and I've played several to completion):
2 Lizardman Fighters (use only swords with them)
1 Rogue, Ninja, or Bard (to pick locks and disarm chests)
1 Ranger (you'll need the scouting ability)
1 Priest (the best healer)
1 Bishop (access to all spell books)

If you don't know what to choose, hobbits are a safe bet for almost all non-spell casters. Again though, read the book or use the site above for individualized choices.

I'd put the fighters up front, the lock-picker on one flank, the ranger on the other, the priest in the back, and the bishop in the middle. The Bishop is a weakling and should be shielded from physical combat as much as possible early on.

Spells you need to get early: Heal Wounds, Armorplate, Missile Shield, Enchanted Blade, Cure Poison. Before picking any others, buy every spell book available from the merchants in Arnika and other locations. You'll want to hoard your spell picks until you read higher levels. Eventual must-have spells (my opinion): Soul Shield, Element Shield, Haste, Cure Disease, Shadow Hound, Set/Return to Portal, X-Ray, Heal All, Restoration, Resurrection.

Hybrid characters are more difficult to develop. Which characters are hybrids? Lords, Samurais, Ninjas, Valkyries, Monks, Bishops. They level up more slowly and as such, get hit points more slowly. I have recommended 2 hybrids to you because:
1) Until you understand what spells are worthwhile, you'll want access to every spellbook and the Bishop gives you this.
2) You'll eventually want to play a Faerie Ninja. You might as well consider one for your first game.

If you avoid leveling up until Arnika, then take your level-ups just outside the gate. Arnika can get strange if you're walking around with available level-ups.

Finally, have fun and use the Wiz8 forums. Most everyone is polite, patient, and helpful.