Please asses my party

[jackal2513]

Right, this took ages but its prolly got some glaring erros and need tweaking. I ended up rushing it 'cos it was getting late. Here goes:

(order of stats = str,dex,con,wis,int,chr)

FIGHTER TANK: half orc, barbarian, lawful evil
20,18,18,1,16,1
concentarition 4, hide 4, intimadte 0, move silently4, wilderness lore 3

TRUE TANK: shield dwarf, fighter, lawful evil
18,18,20,3,16,1
alchemy 0, concentration 5, hide 4, move silently 4, wilderness lore 3

RANGED SHARPSHOOTER/ MELEE #3: human, fighter, lawful evil
18,18,16,10,11,3
concentration 3, hide 6, move silently 5 - bow proficienct, rapid shot etc..

HEALER / DEFENSIVE CLERIC: Human, cleric lorekeeper of olghma, neutral evil
11,17,18,10,17,3
concentration 12, hide 3, move silently 3, spellcraft 2, wilderness lore 3

SPELLCASTER: Human, wizard, neutral evil
3,17,15,17,10,14
bluff 4, conc 10, diplomacy 4, hide 3, intimidate 4, move silently 3, search 3,
spellcraft 5

SPELLCASTER #2: Human, druid, neutral evil
3,18,18,16,17,4
Animal empathy 0, conc 12, hide 4, move silently 4, open lock 6, pickpockets 6, search 3, spellcraft 7, wilderness lore 7

a few points to note:

1) i found a lot of teh skill points not really applicable/useful for the character i was trying to create so ended up adding any old thing. Dont know how i ended up with so much Wilderness Lore esp. as its supposed to be near useless ?
2) decided against a rogue and instead wanted to try a druid which i have never used (apart from Jaheira in BG2) esp. as their spells are unique and i only had the wizard for offensive spellcasting
3) the human fighter will be my ranged sharpshooter archer but will also build him up to scout
4) the druid came with a ton of feats and skills so can maybe use her to open locks and possibly pickpocket
5) i think some of teh scores may not be right, particulalry wisdom for the wizard ? Also, not sure if real low Chr and Int scores will be detrimental but everything i read suggested that its okay
6) orc will be master swordsman, dwarf will be axe specialist, maybe get teh archer using maces as well
7) wasn't sure about "lorekeeper of olghma" as choice of cleric .. found that hard to choose without any more info. Maybe teh cleric should have higher Str but i guess i want her mainly spellcasting & healing
8) the wizard is teh only one with decent Chr as she will be diplomat with bluff, intimidate, diplomacy etc..
9) I DONT WISH TO MULTICLASS ANYONE

ALL FEEDBACK WELCOME

regards

R

[Gimli]

Heh, well first of all the subject is asking for posteriors [img]smile.gif[/img] It's assess, not asses, lol!! =0)

That aside:

(order of stats = str,dex,con,wis,int,chr)

"FIGHTER TANK: half orc, barbarian, lawful evil
20,18,18,1,16,1
concentarition 4, hide 4, intimadte 0, move silently4, wilderness lore 3"

That's fine, I would work on concentration first if you want to take maximized attacks ASAP. A couple of points into wilderness lore will help alot by mid game too. Min-maxed like crazy but that's OK with me.

"TRUE TANK: shield dwarf, fighter, lawful evil
18,18,20,3,16,1
alchemy 0, concentration 5, hide 4, move silently 4, wilderness lore 3"

Also good, pretty much the same comments as the 1/2 orc.

"RANGED SHARPSHOOTER/ MELEE #3: human, fighter, lawful evil
18,18,16,10,11,3
concentration 3, hide 6, move silently 5 - bow proficienct, rapid shot etc.."

I like a race that can get the 20 in Dex for this one if he's going to use bows primarily. Why the 11 Int BTW, I would probably go 10 Int 4 Cha.

"HEALER / DEFENSIVE CLERIC: Human, cleric lorekeeper of olghma, neutral evil
11,17,18,10,17,3
concentration 12, hide 3, move silently 3, spellcraft 2, wilderness lore 3"

I'm not crazy about Oghma (you'll have a Wizard who can cast identify and put a few points into knowledge). If you want a defensive cleric I like Helm or Ilmater better. Also why the odd #s for stats? Unless you're going to raise them later on they don't give a bonus. Basically spellcraft is also a waste for a defensive cleric; concentration is the most important one, keep that maxed.

"SPELLCASTER: Human, wizard, neutral evil
3,17,15,17,10,14
bluff 4, conc 10, diplomacy 4, hide 3, intimidate 4, move silently 3, search 3,
spellcraft 5"

Spellcraft should really go to at least a 10, it will open up some nice elememtal spell casting feats. The odd #'ed stats should change unless you're planning to raise them. Str is really too low, it will be hard for this guy to carry anything (I usually go with an 8).

"SPELLCASTER #2: Human, druid, neutral evil
3,18,18,16,17,4
Animal empathy 0, conc 12, hide 4, move silently 4, open lock 6, pickpockets 6, search 3, spellcraft 7, wilderness lore 7"

Also Str is too low and it will be very hard to raise all of those skills - most are cross-class skills for a Druid, so they will cost 2 points per 1 skill point increase. For some of the ones you want, a Rogue is better suited.

"1) i found a lot of teh skill points not really applicable/useful for the character i was trying to create so ended up adding any old thing. Dont know how i ended up with so much Wilderness Lore esp. as its supposed to be near useless?"

Almost useless - gives some decent info for a first pass through the game in terms of what to expect in diffrent areas. Very, very useful in one spot in particular. But really only needs to be developed in one character.

"2) decided against a rogue and instead wanted to try a druid which i have never used (apart from Jaheira in BG2) esp. as their spells are unique and i only had the wizard for offensive spellcasting"

Druids are cool, but you might want to split the rogue skills between the druid and the wizard. The ones you want the most are Search and Disarm; most locks can be bashed open, and the Wizard will get the Knock spell for the others.

"3) the human fighter will be my ranged sharpshooter archer but will also build him up to scout"

That's fine, but some ranger levels will help there (or maybe multi him as a rogue). Fighters get low skill points, and the hide and move silently skills are cross class for them. If you don't multi you may want a pure Ranger.

"4) the druid came with a ton of feats and skills so can maybe use her to open locks and possibly pickpocket"

Pickpocket is OK, not really needed but interesting - open locks you won't miss at all, just have the 1/2 Orc bash things open, and learn Knock for those very rare occasions when he can't.

"5) i think some of teh scores may not be right, particulalry wisdom for the wizard ? Also, not sure if real low Chr and Int scores will be detrimental but everything i read suggested that its okay"

A 10 Wis for a Wizard is fine - they get very strong Will saves, so they don't need a boost from Wis as much as some other classes do. Low Chr will make those characters fail "talking" skills more, and they will pay more for items they buy. But one character with a decent Cha can do the buying and talking. Low Int effects some skills that are Int based, and also limits the dialogue options you get when you talk. If your Wizard talks and shops you'll be OK.

"6) orc will be master swordsman, dwarf will be axe specialist, maybe get teh archer using maces as well"

I'd go for polearms with the Archer, let the Cleric go with maces. Also everyone should have a cutting and a bludgeoning weapon (for melee and ranged, slings are very good in this game) because some monsters will resist one or the other.

"7) wasn't sure about "lorekeeper of olghma" as choice of cleric .. found that hard to choose without any more info. Maybe teh cleric should have higher Str but i guess i want her mainly spellcasting & healing"

They make pretty good backup tanks too - I personally don't like Ogmha. You couls swap Str and Dex with yours and have him wear heavy armor if you want him more tank-like, I think it's a good idea.

"8) the wizard is teh only one with decent Chr as she will be diplomat with bluff, intimidate, diplomacy etc.."

Definitely a good idea, also she should always do the buying/selling.

"9) I DONT WISH TO MULTICLASS ANYONE"

OK OK [img]smile.gif[/img] I love doing it myself but I won't say a word...

[ 11-08-2002, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Gimli ]

[Gimli]

One other general comment re: skills. You may want to invest a couple of points for everyone in whatever "talking" skill is a class skill for their class (ie, costs 1 point to raise). Sometimes the game won't let you choose who speaks (whoever is closest sometimes to NPCs that initiate conversations with you rather that vice versa does the initial talking).

[Nightowl2]

Well, I'd reverse the Int and Wis scores. Right now, you have guys with 1 Wisdom there, and they will not be able to resist any sort of charm or dominate spell. That can cause you a lot of trouble. Fighters don't need much Int; most of the skills are worthless in their regard. But Wisdom is good for the saving throws.

And yeah, you do want a little bit of Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate. The fighters can take Intimidate.

Nightowl2

[Yggdrasil]

Originally posted by jackal2513: Right, this took ages but its prolly got some glaring erros and need tweaking. I ended up rushing it 'cos it was getting late. Here goes: (order of stats = str,dex,con,wis,int,chr) FIGHTER TANK: half orc, barbarian, lawful evil 20,18,18,1,16,1 concentarition 4, hide 4, intimadte 0, move silently4, wilderness lore 3 TRUE TANK: shield dwarf, fighter, lawful evil 18,18,20,3,16,1 alchemy 0, concentration 5, hide 4, move silently 4, wilderness lore 3 RANGED SHARPSHOOTER/ MELEE #3: human, fighter, lawful evil 18,18,16,10,11,3 concentration 3, hide 6, move silently 5 - bow proficienct, rapid shot etc.. HEALER / DEFENSIVE CLERIC: Human, cleric lorekeeper of olghma, neutral evil 11,17,18,10,17,3 concentration 12, hide 3, move silently 3, spellcraft 2, wilderness lore 3 SPELLCASTER: Human, wizard, neutral evil 3,17,15,17,10,14 bluff 4, conc 10, diplomacy 4, hide 3, intimidate 4, move silently 3, search 3, spellcraft 5 SPELLCASTER #2: Human, druid, neutral evil 3,18,18,16,17,4 Animal empathy 0, conc 12, hide 4, move silently 4, open lock 6, pickpockets 6, search 3, spellcraft 7, wilderness lore 7 a few points to note: 1) i found a lot of teh skill points not really applicable/useful for the character i was trying to create so ended up adding any old thing. Dont know how i ended up with so much Wilderness Lore esp. as its supposed to be near useless ? 2) decided against a rogue and instead wanted to try a druid which i have never used (apart from Jaheira in BG2) esp. as their spells are unique and i only had the wizard for offensive spellcasting 3) the human fighter will be my ranged sharpshooter archer but will also build him up to scout 4) the druid came with a ton of feats and skills so can maybe use her to open locks and possibly pickpocket 5) i think some of teh scores may not be right, particulalry wisdom for the wizard ? Also, not sure if real low Chr and Int scores will be detrimental but everything i read suggested that its okay 6) orc will be master swordsman, dwarf will be axe specialist, maybe get teh archer using maces as well 7) wasn't sure about "lorekeeper of olghma" as choice of cleric .. found that hard to choose without any more info. Maybe teh cleric should have higher Str but i guess i want her mainly spellcasting & healing 8) the wizard is teh only one with decent Chr as she will be diplomat with bluff, intimidate, diplomacy etc.. 9) I DONT WISH TO MULTICLASS ANYONE ALL FEEDBACK WELCOME regards R

OK, here are my views:

Your abilities scores are waaaay out of whack. I think any character with a Charisma under 6 should be attacked by villagers with pitchforks and torches...

Maxing Dex for Clerics is a waste: they can wear the heaviest armor while casting spells. You shoulda put those points into Strength and Charisma (for turning undead)

Maxing Dex on a Barbarian is also a waste: if he's a tank, give him Dex 14. Dex 16 at most. Maxing Dex is good for rogues, rangers, and wizards/sorcerers. Put those points into Int/Wis for Wilderness.

Ditto for the Fighter. Dex 14, put the rest in Int and pick up a few skill points. 18 Dex is a waste unless he's an archer.

Why did you give your ranged Fighter points in Concentration? Anyway, archers should be elven, not human (because then you can max out Dex for ranged attacks!)

A wizard with 3 Strength? and only 17 Intel & Dex??

I think you should have a rogue in there somewhere...

Personally, I think your party is horrible. That is of course only my opinion, and you are free to dismiss it. I don't approve of min/maxing stats, especially when when any stat goes below 6. Again, just me.

[Nightowl2]

Y'know, I missed that. Ouch, a 3 strength....those spellcasters won't be able to carry much of anything. The quarterstaffs might be too much for them. I can just see it: they put on a robe and promptly collapse from being over-encumbered

And a cleric with charisma 3 won't be much use for turning any undead. Turning is based on charisma now, not wisdom.

Nightowl2

[Gimli]

"Why did you give your ranged Fighter points in Concentration?"

I'm guessing he did this to gain access to the Maximized Attacks feat with his fighters, which is actually not such a bad idea.

And I don't think it's a horrible party, the class selection is pretty solid. He just has to change some of the stat allocations pretty much.

[jackal2513]

Okay chaps, i have now changed the party. BTW, in teh above i got int & wis mixed up with eachother, thats why you all told me to swap !

I decided to change the human archer for Elven Ranger to get 20 dex and hide/moce silently bonuses. Only problem is not as many feats so it will take a while to get all the best bow feats (thats why I chose a human first time round). Also decided to have cleric option as melee so made her a half-orc and also made the druid an Aasimar for 20 wis and also just to try something different. Also, note that in eth first post i listed all the skills that showed in eth info after i'd made the characters... thats why you all reckoned I gave all of them concentration when i didn't ! This time i just list teh skills & feats that i gave:

str,dex,con,int,wis,chr

half orc, barbarian, lawful evil
20,16,18,1,15,4
wilderness lore +4
heroic inspiration

shield dwarf, fighter, lawful evil
18,14,20,5,16,3
alchemy +4
martial weapon axe, dodge

elven, ranger, lawful evil
18,20,16,3,14,5
hide +2, move silently +2
martial weapon bow
favoued enemy: goblin

Half-orc, cleric helm, neutral evil
20,10,18,4,18,4
concentration +4
combat casting

Human, wizard, neutral evil
6,10,14,18,14,14
bluff +4, Concentration +4, diplomacy +4, intimidate, knowledge +4, alchemy +2
combat casting, subvocal casting, spell penetration

Human Aasimar, druid, neutral evil
15,18,18,3,20,6
concentration +4
great fortitude

I personally dont see the problem of lowering chr and int right down, if they're not needed for a character then there not needed ... simple as that.

[Gimli]

"I decided to change the human archer for Elven Ranger to get 20 dex and hide/moce silently bonuses. Only problem is not as many feats so it will take a while to get all the best bow feats (thats why I chose a human first time round)."

That's also why I suggested doing an even fighter/ranger multiclass, but if you're deadset against that, a pure ranger will still be OK.

"str,dex,con,int,wis,chr"

"half orc, barbarian, lawful evil
20,16,18,1,15,4
wilderness lore +4
heroic inspiration"

I'd probably up Wis one more point, the odd # won't give any bonus.

"shield dwarf, fighter, lawful evil
18,14,20,5,16,3
alchemy +4
martial weapon axe, dodge"

Why the alchemy? I try to either up concentration to a 4 or take some intimidate. Dodge for a Dwarf with a 20 Con isn't the greatest IMHO - dash is alot more useful.

"elven, ranger, lawful evil
18,20,16,3,14,5
hide +2, move silently +2
martial weapon bow
favoued enemy: goblin"

I like the Troll as a favored enemy, there are some tough troll fights in the early to mid going - goblin is OK too though.

"Half-orc, cleric helm, neutral evil
20,10,18,4,18,4
concentration +4
combat casting"

With his high concentration and Con, combat casting isn't that important, but still not bad for him. Subvocal casting is good too; dash too.

"Human, wizard, neutral evil
6,10,14,18,14,14
bluff +4, Concentration +4, diplomacy +4, intimidate, knowledge +4, alchemy +2
combat casting, subvocal casting, spell penetration"

Hmm, I think his Wis is a little high and his Dex is a little low - a 10 in Wis for a Wizard is plenty. He'll rely on Dex for AC and ranged attacks. Combat casting isn't so great if you plan to keep him guarded in the rear; subvocal casting can wait till level 3 or 6; and spell penetration really only matters against very high level opponents, and from what I've heard doesn't do much against them. What I would suggest is you take a spell focus and greater spell focus in one of the magic schools to make spells cast from it very powerful from the start - enchantment is a good option early on, it will make the "sleep" spell very effective for the early going.

"Human Aasimar, druid, neutral evil
15,18,18,3,20,6
concentration +4
great fortitude"

I would move Str to 16, again the odd # doesn't help. Druids can benefit from Scion of Storms and Spirit of Flame, but you also have to develop spellcraft to a 10 for that - so you might want a human to get the 2 skill points if you're going to min-max the Int. Great fortitude isn't the best thing to start with IMHO, especially with an 18 in Con - I'd probably go for SF in Transmutation and make his entangle spells very potent from the start.

"I personally dont see the problem of lowering chr and int right down, if they're not needed for a character then there not needed ... simple as that."

I agree - for RP purposes I can see people wanting to keep those scores at human "norms", but for the game it's not needed; I'm agnostic on this point really. I will probably go with more "normal" scores with my next group, both for RP reasons and for some added challenge, but min-maxing is fine to me too.

[Callum Kerr]

I don't min/max much... it gives your fighters maximum dexterity which is a waste... except for monks which I don't use as they TOTALLY suck for AGES.

For clerics and druids... seeing as they can wear heavy armour without damging spellcasting, I use these as extra fighters so I minimize charisma and put it in either strength or constitution, as well as wisdom... i reduce int by two and max out the last points... so I have max str, con, and wis (which I have never found needs to go over 19 btw), min cha, normal dex and slightly low int.
I then put all skill points into concentration. I don't bother with spellcraft as there are better feats than scion of storms etc. I suppose if you want them as ranged you could min int and max dex... but I would save bows for people who will get massacred in melle (like rogues wizards, and sorcerors - mainly rogues).

For barbarians... why on earth does he have so much dexterity? Put it into wisdom. As they don't need any other skills, wilderness lore is a good choice.

For fighters... again put the dex into wisdom. They don't even get the benefit of increased movement from light/medium armour so they don't need the dex ac bonus.

Nothing against the ranger, except that if you want more feats, multiclass with a fighter... when you have to give your fighter courteous magocracy as there is nothing else left - you know that you have feats to burn

I can't stand wizards... just a personal thing, and sorcerors already have high charisma as the party leaders... if you do want to continue with a wizard then i would increase strength at the cost of wisdom. For feats, I totally agree.

However, you don't have a rogue... you might want to consider a drow rogue. Rogues make GREAT party leaders. They can take bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate at one skill point each. Get hide, move silently, and open lock as well and voila... brilliant. You don't really need pick pocket (i.e. its basically worthless) and the traps do very little damage. Plus it is very hard to detect them with search.

BTW Is there a spell detect/disarm traps in this game, if so is it 100%?

PS. what does IMHO stand for?
Edit: PPS: and BAB

[ 11-11-2002, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: Callum Kerr ]