Realistic dual wield combinations.

[Indemaijinj]

Well this is going to be a thread about dual-wield combinations that could actually be used realistically for extra RP-value.

Here is one a comics teacher at art school (he was a viking enthusiast) showed me at a wild-west themed party where he arrived in a real chain mail with leather backing and two (blunted) weapons. (He was supposed to resemble a settler of Vinland).

The combination was shortsword and axe. The short sword was the main weapon, while the axe was the off hand one. As with most other realistic dual-wields the off-hand weapon was primarily meant for parrying. An axehead can trap blades quite well allowing you a thrust with the short sword while the other weapon was turned aside. Both weapons can also be used for occasional slashes.

[karlosovic]

the weapon that has always bugged me in BG2 is the Wakizashi. This is supposed to be *the* offhand weapon used in combo with a katana, but:
1. there are only 2 magical Wakizashi in the whole game (I think, I use shadow keeper and did a search, only came up with 2 entries)
2. there is no incentive to use it, no bonuses, they just suck so why would you ?

I think the Wakizashi class would be much improved if it did something like... totally negate thac0 penalty for dual wielding (as this is what it is *designed for*).

The ninja-to is another weapon I can't fathom a use for (except for the bonus merchant one that is "monk only" (and why would you ruin a monks fist bonus by giving him a crappy sword ?)

[Indemaijinj]

As far as I've been told the real samurai practically never used their wakasashis in battle. Instead they used the katana two-handed or a steel fan for parrying.

I find it ridiculous that you can backstab with a katana. Yes, it's light and swift, but it is also almost the length of a two-handed sword and near impossible to conceal.

[SixOfSpades]

Historically, samurai carried wakizashi so they wouldn't walk around unarmed half the time; it was considered rude and highly aggressive to wear your katana in someone else's home. Everyone else (who could afford one) carried wakizashi because it was the best they could get; only members of the samurai class were permitted to wear katanas. I have read that samurai would dual-wield katana and tanto (dagger) much more commonly than katana and wakizashi, although this may be only a question of ability--those who could efficiently use 2 good-sized weapons in duels may have been very few, and everyone else chose to use the katana proper.

Miyamoto Musashi may be considered the patron saint of the Kensai kit, as after all it was named after him. Musashi's fellows and followers admired his skill so much that they nicknamed him "Sword Saint," or Kensei. Musashi tended to prefer the single blade in combat, but noted that using two was frequently advantageous, particularly when one wanted to take a captive.

The ninja-to actually never existed. True, an effective weapon that could be used effectively and yet easily concealed would be a huge advantage to the assassins and secret agents of Japan, but they never had a specific type of weapon specialized for that purpose. The ninja-to was created mainly by modern films and TV, not to mention games. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Backstabbing with a Katana seems understandable, especially if you're hiding behind a tree, and the guy just won't wander close enough to you so you can hit him with your dagger. Nobody said that you actually had to *stab*--chopping his head off is just as quick, and just as effective. It makes less sense to me that Thieves can Backwhack with a Staff--and yet not with a Spear. I fail to see how Thieves (and Mages, for that matter) can't use a Spear just as efficiently as any old Quarterstaff.

For nonsense, though, nothing beats Hiding in Shadows while you're holding the Sword of Flame, or something like that. And what if you're Mirror Imaged? Do all of the illusions have to make their Stealth roll, too?

[Butterfingers]

Well, about the whole spear vs staff bit.

I did a stint in the SCA. I learned a bit of staff fightning. A spear and a staff are remarkably similar, but, there are many subtle differences that actually make them quite different as weapon styles. Most short spears are not actually used for impaling, although you could, it is actually a slashing weapon. It takes a great deal of skill to slash at just the right angle and distance so the tip grazes a weak spot, with out breaking the tip off. With a staff, you want it to connect solidly and give somebody a good thwack. Both are defensive weapons. A good short war spear can be used much like a shield, to block and parry incoming blows, or, deflect a heavy incoming blow at the cost of the spear.

As for a Katana, I find backstabbing with it a laughable idea. It is the oriental version of a bastard sword. A hand and a half sword. I own several, some of them only God knows how old. (My last find was in an antique shop. It had a beat up shark skin scabbard. It was refitted when it was used as a Japanese navel officer's sword in WWII, buy most educated guesses, as many families brought their old swords to war with them. I paid 25 bucks for it in a shop, it's worth thousands. The blade and scabbard have been damaged a bit by gunfire.) Heck, stabbing with the blade could break it.

As for dual wielding, I am fond of a nice solid bit of chain and pretty much any short easily controlled weapon, perhaps a light mace, short sword, dagger, etc. Get them entangled, pull them in, short quick armor piercing blow to end it quickly.

[Indemaijinj]

As far as I know the ninja-to is nothing more than a cheap second-rate wakasashi. A weapon no true warrior would like to be seen with, but still fine enough for a group of mercenary/monks.

[karlosovic]

yes, well I wasn't meaning that *I* personally was going to dual wield a katana. I did kendo for a while a few years ago, and the bambo version is heavy enough that I'm not about to try swinging it with 1 hand, never mind have the other 1 full and in-use as well. From my kendo experience, if it's anything at all like samurai really fought, about the only useable stroke is an overhead down-slice. That being said, I'm sure the whimpiest Samurai was about 10 times stronger than I am, and 100 times more skilled...

anyway, my point was that the game implies you would have a katana in your main hand and the wakasashi in your off-hand... but it's not implemented