Of Blatant Cheating & Frustration ~Improved Ilynich Mod~

[Dundee Slaytern]

Fun. Something that induces happiness and enjoyment in a person. I was not having fun with this mod. Barely walking across half a screen from the first Djinni you meet, I already encounted the mod cheating. I spin my tale too fast though. Allow me to move back a few steps.

The Improved Ilynich Mod is supposed to increase the difficulty of Jon Irenicus' Dungeon, but this idea was done so to the extreme. When I first read about the mod, I had a bad feeling about it and did not install it. I was persuaded to try it though, and I suppose it is only right that one should read a book's content before passing judgement.

Thus I installed it.

I created a solo character. Not a Mage, as they are the easiest to solo with. Not a Fighter, as they are the hardest. Choosing an inbetween, I selected a Half-Elf Cleric/Ranger with the following statistics,

STR: 18/09
CON: 18
DEX: 18
INT: 10
WIS: 18
CHA: 08

All in all, a very balanced character with the potential for great power at higher levels. Christening her, "Elyssan", I sent her forth into battle on Insane Difficulty, not knowing the pain I would put her through. After killing some Mephits and defeating an Ogre Mage, she walked down a corridor when lo and behold, a Shadow Thief appears with 3 dogs. I had some Skeletons from Animate Dead, so I was fairly confident I would win when suddenly... the Thief used a WAND OF FROST on her. The Skeletons are immuned to the damage, but Elyssan is not... Bam, just like that, 60+ damage. Gasping for life, I made her retreat but it was too late... because the Thief used it again... ...

If this is not cheating, I do not know what is. The Shadow Thieves are only at most, level 11, but for some strange reason, they can use Wands. Wow, how fair. Wands of Fear, Paralyse and Frost.

Note to the mod creator(s): You can make a fight difficult without resorting to cheating you know... look at the wonderful job other modders have done. A Thief can only get Use Any Item at level 24... ...

But wait! The lameness does not end there! You are simply not allowed to rest in peace no matter what you do! I can place Elyssan in a room and close all the doors, but Shadow Thieves will still mysteriously spawn right in front of your eyes complete with dogs! I was FORCED to sleep in corners so that when Elyssan wakes up, the Shadow Thieves can only spawn in front of her. If there are two SThieves, I prayed that not both of them have Wands of Frost, because it would be KO for Elyssan. Then there is the fact that they have the Poison Weapon ability. This is not so bad, because the Skeletons take the brunt of it.

Sigh... I used Sanctuary to keep Elyssan safe, then walk out of sight before summoning fodder and buffing to the wazzoo, then charge into battle, which leads us the next problem... When the battle is over, Elyssan usually ends up needing to rest again... ...

Buff spells included Protection from Evil, Draw Upon Holy Might, Resist Fire/Cold, Aid and Armor of Faith.

I was forced to retreat to the equipment room, and had to literally fight tooth and nail to even reach the library... ...

Then I encountered another problem... there are no enchanted one-handed blunt weapons in the area... so... I had no viable means to hurt the Demon that ignores Sanctuary and Invisibility. True... I had Skeletons, but seriously... and there is a Quarterstaff +1, but that is forcing the player to play a certain style which is unfair and unreasonable.

I finally gave up on the mod after being frozen to death for the countless time. If I earned a gold piece for every SThief that I killed, I would be able to rent the Den of Seven Vales for an entire year... I am SICK of killing SThief after SThief over and over again.

In conclusion, this mod seems to scream, "Only Mages need apply" to me because gee... every darn SThief drops a wand. Lemme ask you this, when was the last time you saw a SThief use a wand in an unmodded game? How come all of a sudden they all have one in JI's dungeon? Was there a bin at the entrance with a label saying, "Wands! Get your free Wands here!". Not to mention that they are not even suppose to be able to use them. A Bard or a Mage will cackle at this, because they can use Wands which means they can freely throw "grenades" with wild abandon. One Skull Trap KOs them all too... ...

It is reasonable for a General to increase the difficulty of a wargame if the soldiers are winning it too easily. What is not reasonable, is to send the soldier in buck-naked and tell him to defeat a tank. Sureeee... it is possible, but the more likely scenerio is that the tank is going to roll over the soldier, then reverse back over him, and repeat the process to and for over his ever-flattening body.

How is a solo Monk or a solo Kensai going to go through this on Insane Difficulty? Has it been done before? If so, I applaud them and would like to hear how they dealt with it. If not, then BLEAH.

I have uninstalled the mod. Rest in peace, Elyssan. I am sorry to put you through all this.

[Alson]

I'm sorry you did not enjoyed the Mod.

How about refering this interesting post to Westley Weimer himself?
Or trying to lower the difficulty level?
Or, *gasp*, try it with a party?

I don't think this Mod is desinged for a Solo warrior type play.
I know someone from BlackIsle soloed it on Insane with a Wizard Slayer, and i bow before of his godly tactical skills.
I have beaten it with a party on Insane - me, a Ranger/Cleric (fate is cruel and cynical... ), and all of JID's NPCs, and had much fun.
Maybe you should try it that way.

If not, than just restart the game as Odin Magnus, evil this time, and show them who TRULY owns BG2. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Dundee Slaytern]

A Wizard Slayer can wear armour and use any weapons. Not to mention that he has a touch of Magic Resistances... the main reason why I mentioned the Kensai and Monk, is because they are extremely vulnerable in the beginning.

Unless I see concrete proof that a solo Kensai or Monk can crawl out of this mod alive, I say something is broken here. Lowering the difficulty or using a party will be no better than cheating to me.

I do not only play with solo Sorcerers, and at least all the other mods cater to all classes and enable all of them to achieve success in some way or another. This mod seems way too biase and restrictive... ...

[Alson]

That's why it's optional. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

And, i would be happy to know what is the cheating factor of playing with a party. I think that's the whole point of this Mod - but as i said, it's optional.

Finally, pardon me for being rude, but...

*** Shameless self quoting ***

How about refering this interesting post to Westley Weimer himself?

[SixOfSpades]

It might just be me, but I'm seeing what I consider to be an uncomfortable rash of overpowering in recent MODs.

1) As stated above, Westley Weimer's Improved Ilyich MOD is most likely set way too difficult. It should be a challenge to Solo through it on Insane, not impossible. Weimer has a very good point that Irenicus would have hired goons of reasonable brainpower and ability--but THESE goons would whip Jon's ass without breaking a sweat.
2) Also, there's the fact that Weimer has seen fit to give the enemies equipment that is appropriate for their level, but not for yours--so he robs you by making their gear non-removable. A Deva-summoning Cleric wearing undroppable Full Plate+2? Excuse me, but cheap is cheap.
3) I have a real problem with just about every facet of Gerard Blucher's Lich in the Docks MOD. (His Expanded Thief Stronghold, however, seems perfectly fair, juding from the README.)
4) Dundee has already mentioned a particular item gained as loot from a difficult enemy in the Ritual MOD--this item, usable by Barbarians, renders Barbarians capable of reaching greater than 100% resistance to 3 of the 4 forms of physical damage, without even using Hardiness. Gee, THAT sure makes the rest of the game a hell of a challenge, doesn't it? What is this, BG2 for Diablo players?
5) Even our own dear Sazerac has designed an item that I consider to be overpowered, the Amulet of Speed and Time. I realize that the item is only won after a very difficult fight, but the concept of a Level 12 Wizard Slayer being able to cast Time Stop once per day is just too much for me to swallow.

Instead of an Email, perhaps it would be best for all those with similar opinions to state them here, so that we may refer Weimer, Blucher, Sazerac and any others to this thread, so that they can read a "petition," if you will.

[ 11-06-2002, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Just to clarify something, it is not Weimer who wrote it, but Leslei Reimer. So far, I have enjoyed Weimer's personal mods. Tough, but fun.

As for the party thing, SixOfSpades has answered for me.

Do I e-mail this thread to Weimer or what?

[Angelousss]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: 1) As stated above, Westley Weimer's Improved Ilyich MOD is most likely set way too difficult. It should be a challenge to Solo through it on Insane, not impossible. Weimer has a very good point that Irenicus would have hired goons of reasonable brainpower and ability--but THESE goons would whip Jon's ass without breaking a sweat.

not to completely disagree, cause i don't think irenicus would hire complete fools, but he doesn't care about his hirelings, he is incredibly confident in his own abilitys, He just wants good workers who can do what they do well and cheaply. Illyich is a blacksmith, not a warrior. irenicus wouldn't want a good warrior, he'd want a good blacksmith who happens to have some skill as a warrior.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Jonny cannot summon a Planetar, but his minions can summon a Deva?

[Alson]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: Do I e-mail this thread to Weimer or what?

Yes, IMO, you should.

Oh, and... Dundee...

MAJOR SPOILER about Westley Weimer!
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Westley Weimer IS Leslei Reimer.
Just try to pronounce both names.
It's a personal joke between JCompton and Weimer.
Actually, the whole Improved Ilyich started as a joke, but it inspired Wes to do it.

And... Satna is your mom and dad. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
But who am i to say... I'm jewish!

[jcompton]

Yes, thank you, Alson. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Dundee... Improved Ilyich is, when it comes right down to it, a joke. I wrote that whole exchange between "Lesley Reimer" (meant to be Weimer), "Webhard Luther" (meant to be Gebhard Blucher, a pal of Wes's), and "Peter Scolari" (actually the name of a mildly famous actor) to tease Wes about his Improved X mods. He, as I suspected he would, went ahead and created the mod, essentially to my specifications, although all of the socialist rhetoric was his idea.

Not being able to rest is not terribly "mysterious", really, given everything that we're made to understand is going on there, you never should have been able to rest in the first place.