American Fighter pilot still a POW?

Ronn_Bman · 03-11-2002, 06:50 PM

An American fighter pilot, shot down over Iraq at the beginning of the Gulf War (I think it was on the first day), has had his status changed from KIA (killed in action) to MIA (missing in action). They now say he may have been held prisoner all of this time.

Isn't this a little too convenient an excuse involving Iraq?

In the government's defense, I will say that this reclassification didn't happen overnight. Some have been fighting for this pilot to be listed MIA since '96 or '97, but it's just plain bad timing to do it now.

It looks like an excuse for an unpopular (in the world view) attack against Saddam. The status change may be legitimate, but even if it is, the timing has ruined that legitimacy.

Obviously, this change of status will not change the mind of anyone who is against an attack on Iraq.

Attalus · 03-11-2002, 07:02 PM

Heck, Ronn, most of the Arab world wouldn't believe us if we said the sun was shining. Why should we care?

Ronn_Bman · 03-11-2002, 07:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Attalus:
Heck, Ronn, most of the Arab world wouldn't believe us if we said the sun was shining. Why should we care?

Well, the world would be much simpler for US if those in the Middle East thought the US was credible. I agree with the general idea of your post; there is practically nothing we can do, in the short term, to make ourselves believable. I just believe things like this hurt our chances.

Even worse than what those in the Middle East think, though, is what those in the West will think of this latest statement in conjuction with our desire to remove Saddam.

Epona · 03-11-2002, 07:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:

Even worse than what those in the Middle East think, though, is what those in the West will think of this latest statement in conjuction with our desire to remove Saddam.

Ah, you read my mind.

Ronn_Bman · 03-11-2002, 07:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Epona:

Ah, you read my mind.

See there! According to my latest polls, we agree frequently!

khazadman · 03-11-2002, 07:46 PM

so do we wait till he fires a scud loaded with sarin into tel aviv before we do anything?

Epona · 03-11-2002, 07:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:

See there! According to my latest polls, we agree frequently!

Ah, no! Must do something about that!!!
But seriously, I agree with your point - and it *does* look suspicious to me. Doesn't help your government to gain (or retain) credibility within the Western world.

[ 03-11-2002: Message edited by: Epona ]

nick1979 · 03-11-2002, 08:37 PM

From the report I heard the status was changed last year on reports from several Iraqi defectors and British intelligence. I think its just now getting more mida attention.

John D Harris · 03-11-2002, 09:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nick1979:
From the report I heard the status was changed last year on reports from several Iraqi defectors and British intelligence. I think its just now getting more mida attention.

I remember hearing something about the pilot Last year also. It was in the spring or early summer,if my olde farte's memory hasn't failed me

As for going to war with Iraq, if we do what is the rest of the world going to do? The populations of our allies will protest in the streets, their Govt's will make public statments of disgust. Will they try to go to war with us? NO! Will they try economic sanctions? NO! their economies are to closely tied to ours, remember this is a global economy. Will they cut diplomatic ties? NO! In the halls of their Govt. they know Iraq is a loose cannon. They will go for a UN resulution (sp?) condemming the USA, we'll veto the res. there will be a big stink about it. There will be massive amounts of editorials writen in their newspapers, spoken on their TV's. They may even get a few politicains elected that will promise to do something. But when they get into power and see all the secret facts that ALL countries Govts. don't let the general public in on they'll quietly drop it.ie: get caught up in domestic matters. The real question is do we (USA) want to put up with stuff for a couple of years? Or do we wait until "Sodanm Insane" feel he can launch an attack using weapons of mass destruction on Israel. Israel WILL reltailiate and turn Iraq into a glass parking lot. The rest of the Arabs will jump into it and Israel will turn them into glass parking lots too. Then we have to deal with the radation, fallout and all that crap. Hopefully one of our Allies that is in a position to take "Sodanm Insane" out will do so and spare the world all the flak will come about, if He is allowed to continue in power.

Alright let me have it.

Thoran · 03-11-2002, 10:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by John D Harris:

I remember hearing something about the pilot Last year also. It was in the spring or early summer,if my olde farte's memory hasn't failed me

As for going to war with Iraq, if we do what is the rest of the world going to do? The populations of our allies will protest in the streets, their Govt's will make public statments of disgust. Will they try to go to war with us? NO! Will they try economic sanctions? NO! their economies are to closely tied to ours, remember this is a global economy. Will they cut diplomatic ties? NO! In the halls of their Govt. they know Iraq is a loose cannon. They will go for a UN resulution (sp?) condemming the USA, we'll veto the res. there will be a big stink about it. There will be massive amounts of editorials writen in their newspapers, spoken on their TV's. They may even get a few politicains elected that will promise to do something. But when they get into power and see all the secret facts that ALL countries Govts. don't let the general public in on they'll quietly drop it.ie: get caught up in domestic matters. The real question is do we (USA) want to put up with stuff for a couple of years? Or do we wait until "Sodanm Insane" feel he can launch an attack using weapons of mass destruction on Israel. Israel WILL reltailiate and turn Iraq into a glass parking lot. The rest of the Arabs will jump into it and Israel will turn them into glass parking lots too. Then we have to deal with the radation, fallout and all that crap. Hopefully one of our Allies that is in a position to take "Sodanm Insane" out will do so and spare the world all the flak will come about, if He is allowed to continue in power.

Alright let me have it.

We would burn up any political currency we currently have by doing it that way... not to mention validating the beliefs of many of the people that have been claiming all we are is autocratic somnbiches. Economic Imperialists... we don't need to conquer... we just dictate from a position of economic control and others are forced to comply. IMO this is not the time for us to get heavy handed... we've proven time and time again that while building concensus is difficult, it's a MUCH more viable approach to solving these problems in the long run.

Of course there's a lot of appeal in the US for the idea of just doing the job and having it done with... one of the policies I live by is something an exec told me years ago...
"It's always better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission"

[ 03-11-2002: Message edited by: Thoran ]

03-11-2002, 06:50 PM	#1
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 58 Posts: 5,177	An American fighter pilot, shot down over Iraq at the beginning of the Gulf War (I think it was on the first day), has had his status changed from KIA (killed in action) to MIA (missing in action). They now say he may have been held prisoner all of this time. Isn't this a little too convenient an excuse involving Iraq? In the government's defense, I will say that this reclassification didn't happen overnight. Some have been fighting for this pilot to be listed MIA since '96 or '97, but it's just plain bad timing to do it now. It looks like an excuse for an unpopular (in the world view) attack against Saddam. The status change may be legitimate, but even if it is, the timing has ruined that legitimacy. Obviously, this change of status will not change the mind of anyone who is against an attack on Iraq. __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

03-11-2002, 07:23 PM	#3
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 58 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by Attalus: Heck, Ronn, most of the Arab world wouldn't believe us if we said the sun was shining. Why should we care? Well, the world would be much simpler for US if those in the Middle East thought the US was credible. I agree with the general idea of your post; there is practically nothing we can do, in the short term, to make ourselves believable. I just believe things like this hurt our chances. Even worse than what those in the Middle East think, though, is what those in the West will think of this latest statement in conjuction with our desire to remove Saddam. __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

03-11-2002, 07:33 PM	#4
Epona Zartan Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: London, England Age: 54 Posts: 5,164	quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Even worse than what those in the Middle East think, though, is what those in the West will think of this latest statement in conjuction with our desire to remove Saddam. Ah, you read my mind. __________________ [img]\"http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/epona.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

03-11-2002, 07:41 PM	#5
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 58 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by Epona: Ah, you read my mind. See there! According to my latest polls, we agree frequently! __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

03-11-2002, 07:46 PM	#7
Epona Zartan Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: London, England Age: 54 Posts: 5,164	quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: See there! According to my latest polls, we agree frequently! Ah, no! Must do something about that!!! But seriously, I agree with your point - and it does look suspicious to me. Doesn't help your government to gain (or retain) credibility within the Western world. [ 03-11-2002: Message edited by: Epona ] __________________ [img]\"http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/epona.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

03-11-2002, 07:02 PM	#2
Attalus Symbol of Bane Join Date: November 26, 2001 Location: Texas Age: 76 Posts: 8,167	Heck, Ronn, most of the Arab world wouldn't believe us if we said the sun was shining. Why should we care?

03-11-2002, 07:46 PM	#6
khazadman User suspended until [Feb13] Join Date: December 6, 2001 Location: the south side of ol virginny Age: 63 Posts: 1,172	so do we wait till he fires a scud loaded with sarin into tel aviv before we do anything?

03-11-2002, 08:37 PM	#8
nick1979 Zhentarim Guard Join Date: April 11, 2001 Location: Murfreesboro, TN, USA Age: 46 Posts: 333	From the report I heard the status was changed last year on reports from several Iraqi defectors and British intelligence. I think its just now getting more mida attention. __________________

03-11-2002, 09:48 PM	#9
John D Harris Ninja Storm Shadow Join Date: March 27, 2001 Location: Northport,Alabama, USA Age: 63 Posts: 3,577	quote: Originally posted by nick1979: From the report I heard the status was changed last year on reports from several Iraqi defectors and British intelligence. I think its just now getting more mida attention. I remember hearing something about the pilot Last year also. It was in the spring or early summer,if my olde farte's memory hasn't failed me As for going to war with Iraq, if we do what is the rest of the world going to do? The populations of our allies will protest in the streets, their Govt's will make public statments of disgust. Will they try to go to war with us? NO! Will they try economic sanctions? NO! their economies are to closely tied to ours, remember this is a global economy. Will they cut diplomatic ties? NO! In the halls of their Govt. they know Iraq is a loose cannon. They will go for a UN resulution (sp?) condemming the USA, we'll veto the res. there will be a big stink about it. There will be massive amounts of editorials writen in their newspapers, spoken on their TV's. They may even get a few politicains elected that will promise to do something. But when they get into power and see all the secret facts that ALL countries Govts. don't let the general public in on they'll quietly drop it.ie: get caught up in domestic matters. The real question is do we (USA) want to put up with stuff for a couple of years? Or do we wait until "Sodanm Insane" feel he can launch an attack using weapons of mass destruction on Israel. Israel WILL reltailiate and turn Iraq into a glass parking lot. The rest of the Arabs will jump into it and Israel will turn them into glass parking lots too. Then we have to deal with the radation, fallout and all that crap. Hopefully one of our Allies that is in a position to take "Sodanm Insane" out will do so and spare the world all the flak will come about, if He is allowed to continue in power. Alright let me have it. __________________ Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts

03-11-2002, 10:14 PM	#10
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 57 Posts: 2,109	quote: Originally posted by John D Harris: I remember hearing something about the pilot Last year also. It was in the spring or early summer,if my olde farte's memory hasn't failed me As for going to war with Iraq, if we do what is the rest of the world going to do? The populations of our allies will protest in the streets, their Govt's will make public statments of disgust. Will they try to go to war with us? NO! Will they try economic sanctions? NO! their economies are to closely tied to ours, remember this is a global economy. Will they cut diplomatic ties? NO! In the halls of their Govt. they know Iraq is a loose cannon. They will go for a UN resulution (sp?) condemming the USA, we'll veto the res. there will be a big stink about it. There will be massive amounts of editorials writen in their newspapers, spoken on their TV's. They may even get a few politicains elected that will promise to do something. But when they get into power and see all the secret facts that ALL countries Govts. don't let the general public in on they'll quietly drop it.ie: get caught up in domestic matters. The real question is do we (USA) want to put up with stuff for a couple of years? Or do we wait until "Sodanm Insane" feel he can launch an attack using weapons of mass destruction on Israel. Israel WILL reltailiate and turn Iraq into a glass parking lot. The rest of the Arabs will jump into it and Israel will turn them into glass parking lots too. Then we have to deal with the radation, fallout and all that crap. Hopefully one of our Allies that is in a position to take "Sodanm Insane" out will do so and spare the world all the flak will come about, if He is allowed to continue in power. Alright let me have it. We would burn up any political currency we currently have by doing it that way... not to mention validating the beliefs of many of the people that have been claiming all we are is autocratic somnbiches. Economic Imperialists... we don't need to conquer... we just dictate from a position of economic control and others are forced to comply. IMO this is not the time for us to get heavy handed... we've proven time and time again that while building concensus is difficult, it's a MUCH more viable approach to solving these problems in the long run. Of course there's a lot of appeal in the US for the idea of just doing the job and having it done with... one of the policies I live by is something an exec told me years ago... "It's always better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission" [ 03-11-2002: Message edited by: Thoran ]

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