power parties: Are mages needed?

krunchyfrogg · 10-06-2005, 08:05 PM

Maybe it's my personal playing style, but the more I play this game, the more I come to think that mages just aren't needed, either for a power party or even just to have a good time.

Would a party with a lot of tanks do alright with only a bard acting as the mage?

lost prophet · 10-06-2005, 09:03 PM

I havn't completed TotLM or played the game through on HOF so i cant say for them but for IWD & HOW you could easily get through with a bard as your only means of arcane power. however i think you'd find that on HOF it would be a different matter. while not needed as much as in IWD2 and nowhere near as much as BG2 mages still make IWD alot easier and funner to play IMO

lost prophet · 10-06-2005, 09:13 PM

why does it say on the board that there is no replys for this post? I just made one, what am I the next door neighbour or something. Or is it just my pc?.

[edit]:sorry krunchyfrog that was offtopic i know.

[ 10-06-2005, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: lost prophet ]

krunchyfrogg · 10-07-2005, 02:10 AM

LOL, that was funny. [img]smile.gif[/img]

lost prophet · 10-07-2005, 02:40 AM

i think it might just have been a little mistake by my computer, its about 5 years old and terribly slow lol 9G hd & 128MB, but alas I we are straying from your question. Are you planning on implementing a party without any mages in it? or is this just a query

NobleNick · 10-07-2005, 10:40 AM

krunchyfrogg,

At first I thought you meant ABSOLUTELY no mage power; and I would disagree with that. But a Bard makes a decent mage in the late game and expansions; and this is all you NEED. However, a full Mage is better; and I think two "Mages" make the game easier and (for me) much more enjoyable. There have been many situations where I wanted TWO simultaneous spells cast, and was glad for the extra arcane power from my "junior Mage:" the Bard.

My Bard has been shepherding a party of 4 Fighters and a Cleric (all destined to DC) through IWD. Things have been going more smoothly than I anticipated. Makes me wonder if a second Bard would be better than the DC F/M I am building. Simultaneous "Ballad of Three Heros" and "The War Chant," sung to 4 other warriors with Grand Mastery. Or will 2 War Chants stack? Hhmmm......

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[ 10-07-2005, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

Aerich · 10-07-2005, 11:16 PM

I doubt that two war chants would stack. A better bet would be war chant and Tymora's melody - it gives you +1 to die rolls (including crit hits) and +3 to saves.

To answer your question, krunchyfrogg, I say that mages ARE necessary for a power party. Reasons? Best area-effect damage spells and best caster-only buffs. You can finish the game fairly well without magery, or with just a bard casting arcane spells, but you miss out on a lot.

In passing, I prefer a F/M to a straight mage. The fighter class counterbalances the main weaknesses of a mage: weapon choice/proficiency points, Thaco, and HP.

Azred · 10-11-2005, 03:36 PM

I don't know if the bard songs stack, but if you're like me you could edit the songs so that they will stack. I'll have to check whether or not they stack when I get home this evening.

By the way, I don't think you can have a "power" party without a mage. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

CerebroDragon · 10-11-2005, 04:39 PM

Admittedly there's alot of protecting of pure spellcasters in the early levels of IWD, (I prefer straight classes to multi) but with patience and diligence, you are duly rewarded with some lovely obliteration/area effect nastiness if that is indeed the avenue you pursue. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Straight plain power themed hack and slash would become slightly lacking in strategic depth for me - I couldn't live without the two mages I created for my previous outings through the game.
(A Necromancer and an Invoker before that)
I can assure you that they're worth it.

Still, a power themed party of fighters/archers and clerics would be worth investigating without magery. I completed Baldurs Gate the first time without one, but never considered doing it with IWD where usually more diverse heavy combat tactics are needed.
I tend to agree agree with Azred though, you need at least one in any "tr00 power" party.

Azred · 10-11-2005, 05:29 PM

Especially if you have a modicum of intelligence and patience and you don't mind editing many of the mage and cleric spells to have their effects carry forward to 30th level. [img]graemlins/firedevil.gif[/img] Only for HoF, though....

10-06-2005, 08:05 PM	#1
krunchyfrogg Red Dragon Join Date: February 14, 2004 Location: NY, USA Age: 49 Posts: 1,516	Maybe it's my personal playing style, but the more I play this game, the more I come to think that mages just aren't needed, either for a power party or even just to have a good time. Would a party with a lot of tanks do alright with only a bard acting as the mage? __________________ <i>A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives.</i><br />- Jackie Robinson<br /><br /> [img]\"http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3353/salsashark7xl.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

10-06-2005, 09:03 PM	#2
lost prophet Drow Warrior Join Date: October 23, 2004 Location: Perth, Western Australia, Australia Age: 34 Posts: 297	I havn't completed TotLM or played the game through on HOF so i cant say for them but for IWD & HOW you could easily get through with a bard as your only means of arcane power. however i think you'd find that on HOF it would be a different matter. while not needed as much as in IWD2 and nowhere near as much as BG2 mages still make IWD alot easier and funner to play IMO __________________ I have a dream, we all have dreams.

10-06-2005, 09:13 PM	#3
lost prophet Drow Warrior Join Date: October 23, 2004 Location: Perth, Western Australia, Australia Age: 34 Posts: 297	why does it say on the board that there is no replys for this post? I just made one, what am I the next door neighbour or something. Or is it just my pc?. [edit]:sorry krunchyfrog that was offtopic i know. [ 10-06-2005, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: lost prophet ] __________________ I have a dream, we all have dreams.

10-07-2005, 02:10 AM	#4
krunchyfrogg Red Dragon Join Date: February 14, 2004 Location: NY, USA Age: 49 Posts: 1,516	LOL, that was funny. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ <i>A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives.</i><br />- Jackie Robinson<br /><br /> [img]\"http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3353/salsashark7xl.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

10-07-2005, 02:40 AM	#5
lost prophet Drow Warrior Join Date: October 23, 2004 Location: Perth, Western Australia, Australia Age: 34 Posts: 297	i think it might just have been a little mistake by my computer, its about 5 years old and terribly slow lol 9G hd & 128MB, but alas I we are straying from your question. Are you planning on implementing a party without any mages in it? or is this just a query __________________ I have a dream, we all have dreams.

10-07-2005, 10:40 AM	#6
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 65 Posts: 1,045	krunchyfrogg, At first I thought you meant ABSOLUTELY no mage power; and I would disagree with that. But a Bard makes a decent mage in the late game and expansions; and this is all you NEED. However, a full Mage is better; and I think two "Mages" make the game easier and (for me) much more enjoyable. There have been many situations where I wanted TWO simultaneous spells cast, and was glad for the extra arcane power from my "junior Mage:" the Bard. My Bard has been shepherding a party of 4 Fighters and a Cleric (all destined to DC) through IWD. Things have been going more smoothly than I anticipated. Makes me wonder if a second Bard would be better than the DC F/M I am building. Simultaneous "Ballad of Three Heros" and "The War Chant," sung to 4 other warriors with Grand Mastery. Or will 2 War Chants stack? Hhmmm...... -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!! [ 10-07-2005, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

10-07-2005, 11:16 PM	#7
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 44 Posts: 2,061	I doubt that two war chants would stack. A better bet would be war chant and Tymora's melody - it gives you +1 to die rolls (including crit hits) and +3 to saves. To answer your question, krunchyfrogg, I say that mages ARE necessary for a power party. Reasons? Best area-effect damage spells and best caster-only buffs. You can finish the game fairly well without magery, or with just a bard casting arcane spells, but you miss out on a lot. In passing, I prefer a F/M to a straight mage. The fighter class counterbalances the main weaknesses of a mage: weapon choice/proficiency points, Thaco, and HP. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

10-11-2005, 03:36 PM	#8
Azred Drow Priestess Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex Age: 55 Posts: 4,037	I don't know if the bard songs stack, but if you're like me you could edit the songs so that they will stack. I'll have to check whether or not they stack when I get home this evening. By the way, I don't think you can have a "power" party without a mage. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] __________________ Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true. No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

10-11-2005, 04:39 PM	#9
CerebroDragon Red Wizard of Thay Join Date: March 2, 2003 Location: Ballarat, Australia. Age: 46 Posts: 878	Admittedly there's alot of protecting of pure spellcasters in the early levels of IWD, (I prefer straight classes to multi) but with patience and diligence, you are duly rewarded with some lovely obliteration/area effect nastiness if that is indeed the avenue you pursue. [img]smile.gif[/img] Straight plain power themed hack and slash would become slightly lacking in strategic depth for me - I couldn't live without the two mages I created for my previous outings through the game. (A Necromancer and an Invoker before that) I can assure you that they're worth it. Still, a power themed party of fighters/archers and clerics would be worth investigating without magery. I completed Baldurs Gate the first time without one, but never considered doing it with IWD where usually more diverse heavy combat tactics are needed. I tend to agree agree with Azred though, you need at least one in any "tr00 power" party. __________________ Diddledy High, Diddledy Low, Come Brave Blood Sheep, You've a goodly way to go. - Brilhasti Ap Tarj

10-11-2005, 05:29 PM	#10
Azred Drow Priestess Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex Age: 55 Posts: 4,037	Especially if you have a modicum of intelligence and patience and you don't mind editing many of the mage and cleric spells to have their effects carry forward to 30th level. [img]graemlins/firedevil.gif[/img] Only for HoF, though.... __________________ Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true. No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

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