Anybody taken an all-stealth party?

[Aerich]

Not that I'm about to do this (yet) as I've sort of put IWD aside recently, and when I get back to it the priestly party is priority #1.

But has anyone taken a party through that is mostly comprised of stealth masters? It could be quite effective, although it might be tedious getting everyone to hide in shadows, at least until the skill levels up a bit.

I had a party once where I spent a good portion of time with two mc thieves and a ranger sneaking up on archers/mages and whaling the tar out of them before they could respond. 'Twas fun, and yet another interesting way to play.

[JrKASperov]

Ah yes, the chaotic good party of Robin Hood and his fellows. There is, ofcourse, the ranger the Hood himself. And then his marry band of a fighter/thief, thief/mage dual class, thief/cleric dual class (would have been better as druid), and a normal thief.

[Aerich]

So give us some details! Did you go all the way through? How did they do in tough fights? What were your best strategies? Did you ever manage four simultaneous backstabs? Was AC a problem, or did you do a lot of fast armor switching?

[JrKASperov]

Well, to tell the truth, it had only been an idea... And I have enough experience with Fighter/thieves and thieves to tell something about that. With thieves, I tend to stab, or shoot from a distance, and then run away to hide again. Fighter/thieves are about the same, though they are also useful as minor tanks. I prefer to have two sets of armor for F/T's, one plate, one leather. Normally, wear the plate, and choose the leather when you decide to go do some sneaking or thievery! But I don't switch armors, can't be bothered actually! My best backstab was a double backstab, simply because there wasn't enough room for more lads...

[Aerich]

Ok, maybe I'll try it out sometime. A F/T is quite viable as a main tank, and a ranger could act as the secondary (not primary, because of the AC hit for the extra attack). Grab a dwarf for higher HP, or a gnome for better AC (the -3 Helm).

Durability against successive opponents would be the main problem, once the characters have blown their cover. That's why I'd go easy on the pure thieves; but Ranger, F/T, M/T, Cleric/Thief, Bard (sort of a thief) and Druid (just because they rock), would be cool.

The Ranger and F/T would take on opponents closer to the action, while the M/T and C/T take out weaker, more isolated opposition. The Bard could use invisibility or just fire away as an archer/caster, and the druid would just kick some butt. Alternately, the M/T and C/T could cast spells right after the R and F/T attack.

[AThousandYoung]

I'm playing with a stealth party right now on Insane difficulty. Is this HoF mode? How do I get HoF mode? I'm clearing out the Temple of the Forgotten God right now. My party theme is a wandering band of thieves turned adventurers due to the massive wealth they discovered could be obtained. They will rob anyone they can however via pickpockets or burglary, or assassination and robbery if it seems reasonable. Here's the makeup:

Dwarf F/T with massive Str and Con. A predator and a thug and cold blooded murderer who provides muscle for the party. He is awesome and extremely useful. Weapon specialization + exceptional Strength + Backstab makes for some one hit kills on occasion. He's also a good tank. I have to swap his plate mail on and off a lot and swap his shield for his bow a lot which is annoying. I am planning on getting him sling proficiency so he can fire missiles without having to go through the whole process of removing his shield and equipping the bow, though he is much more devestating with his specialization in Bows and his Composite Longbow (well magical longbow now).

Half Elf Thief who specializes in Pickpocket. I use him as an archer in fights or backup stealth scout.

Halfling Thief with 18 Cha who specializes in Open Locks. He gets all my stealth enhancement gear and is part of my "careful" scouting pair, along with the other Halfling. Otherwise he scouts alone when I am not being careful. He usually uses a bow.

Halfling Thief who specializes in Find Traps. She works with the other Halfling when I am being careful or when I am burglarizing someone's home. For careful scouting, she keeps Find Traps on, he keeps Stealth on, and they kind of leapfrog...he advances a few paces ahead of her, she catches up with him to scan the path for traps...basically he's keeping an eye out for enemies while invisible and she's keeping an eye out for traps. It's a slow but thorough way to avoid all danger while scouting.

Human Dual Thief 5/Cleric XX with all points in Stealth. She's the advisor and support for the party...she worships Mask, God of Thieves. Also a slinger and occasional backup tank since she can wear armor.

Elf Thief/Mage. He is very important. I use him to Web/Stinking Cloud to control swarms of enemies. This would work better if I had a Druid to Entangle, but that didn't fit with the theme. He's also an archer.

My basic tactics are:

1) General, low caution - use male Halfling to stealth scout and backstab pull. Use Dwarf to tank, others as archers for damage.

2) Traps are around, or suspected - I use the "careful" scouting pair to leapfrog scout as I described above. Pull is with bow or Halfling Backstab.

3) Powerful enemy located - Dwarf Backstab pulls it for massive damage (he hit for 70 last time I remember with his Lucky Scimitar and killed the target outright).

4) Swarm of enemies - Mage uses Webs, Grease and Stinking Clouds to immobilize the swarm, and everyone uses missiles to kill the immobilized enemies. This will get more fun once I get Fireball.

5) Alternate tactic - Sometimes if I have room and am facing one or a few melee enemies I'll do a group kiting tactic, in which all people use missiles and whoever the enemies goes after will run away while the others shoot it. If it changes targets the new target will run while the old one starts shooting.

6) Supplementary tactic - Cleric summons undead to be cannon fodder tanks and supplementary damage for any of the other tactics I use.

7) Entering a door or tunnel to a new area - everyone is stealthed (you need to make sure to restealth the first one in sometimes, but it works fine). Generally the dwarf and sometimes the others have Backstab friendly weapons in hand. This lets you evaluate new areas safely even when there's an ambush prepared for you.

8) Outright theft - I Pickpocket everyone with the Half Elf and I use the pair of Halflings to rob every building I can.

[AThousandYoung]

Oh yeah, I discovered an EXTREMELY CHEAP TRICK (ECT) that my party excels at. I don't use it yet except once to experiment but I am keeping it in my bag of tricks in case I need it. It's the Invisible Invulnerable Tank Trick (IITT).

It works like this:

Halflings find a powerful melee enemy or enemies without him/them seeing the scouting pair. The party positions itself so there's a narrow choke point that the enemy will have to cross to get to them. The female bow pulls the enemies and the pair run back to the party. The still stealthed male Halfling stands in the choke point as an obstacle. Since the enemies can't see him, they can't attack him, and since he's there, they can't advance past him, so he's just an invisible wall that I can then fire arrows and spells past. It's really cheap but it works. All you need is an invisible character(s), opponents who only melee, a choke point and the ability to do ranged damage.

[ 08-21-2004, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: AThousandYoung ]

[Stratos]

If you have the Heart of Winter expansion pack, you can turn on the Heart of Fury mode via the configuration program. I'm warning you, though, it's ten times more difficult than the Insane difficulty.

Welcome to Ironworksforum, BTW! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[AThousandYoung]

What makes HoF different? Is the AI better, or do they just make the enemies hit harder or have more HP? Or are there more of them?

[Aerich]

[img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] Welcome to Ironworks, AThousandYoung! [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]

Nice to know that you're doing the all-steath thing. Keep us updated on how it goes. With three pure thieves you may have some trouble against tough enemies. But I'm sure your tactics will help you get through.

I've experimented a bit with the ECT before too, but with a Sanctuary on a Cleric. Fun, powerful, AND cheap, as you've said. I don't use it on a regular basis, because I've got access to so many hindering spells.

Regarding HoF: be prepared for a fight.
The monsters have better AC and Thac0, and there will be more of them.
But the biggest kicker is the jump in HP. IIRC, the formula is something like 3x base HP + 70.
Meaning that your basic 10 HP orc all of a sudden has 100 HP, and everything tough just got a whole lot tougher!

In HoF, you have to make great use of hindering spells, summons, and charm spells. Charm person and Confusion, etc, get to be a LOT more powerful.