Poor Yoshimo (Spoilers)

[Butterfingers]

I have been thinking a great deal about Yoshimo.

And I think the game designers botched what could have been a much better aspect of the game.

I think it would have been far more interesting through conversation options to find out that Yoshimo was under a Geas and then try and find a way to save him before Spellhold. Perhaps put it on a timer, once you figured it out and confronted him, as a Geas usually has a way of causing people to self distruct.

Yoshimo after all, is a pure class Thief and by all aspects, a darn good one. He has excellent stats. He has a good personality and in depth character as well. (Acting as a mentor for Nalia was a nice touch) He has some great lines.

Maybe the Mod community could fix this?

[Xero279]

i dunno, i like him as he is. the reason they made him the best thief was so you would take him a long with you, and then his plot comes into play, etc. etc.

[pcgiant]

This thread needs spoiler tags.

As already stated, Yoshimo was made to have good stats and was made True Neutral so that the the player would be tempted to take him regardless of any other factors. The designers obviously wanted him to be good enough to be taken to Spellhold. I also like him the way he is. How many NPCs can you have in your party that aren't actually working with you? It's an interesting party of the game. And wasn't there something that said once he told of his Geas he would die anyway? I'm not too sure. I never take him with me now that I know what happens, anyway. If I'm gonna take Imoen, I only take four NPCs until I reach her, that way everyone levels faster. (Although Imoen is even worse compared to the other NPCs that way.)

[ 03-26-2003, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: pcgiant ]

[Butterfingers]

The thread has a spoiler tag right there in the title in case you missed it somehow.

[pcgiant]

Hmmmm. lol, Sorry Butterfingers, my mistake. I guess that's what happens if you open too many windows at once. [img]tongue.gif[/img] SORRY! [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

[Xero279]

PCGaint, i think yoshimo is true neutral because he is a bounty hunter. If you were a bounty hunter, i would think you would have no problem siding with good or evil, hence the neutrality. If he was good, evil organizations/people wouldnt hire him, if he were evil, good organizations/people wouldnt hire him, but neither should have a problem with a neutral characters.

thats just how i see it, anyway

[Mirror Image]

I agree Yoshimo has some great lines. He's particularly interesting when you have Keldorn in the group. However I agree he had to go, if not to make room for Imoen's return. Infact the game is filled ith people you come and go making room for other NPCs. Nalia was kidnapped and I got Valygar for Planar Sphere. I lost Jaheira for a day and picked up Keldorn for the Unseeing Eye Quest (boy was she mad when I wouldn't let her back in two levels down in the dungeon). I lost Keldorn to a family problem and then grabbed Viconnia for the graveyard and kept her through underdark. I lost Jaheira again, regrabbed Keldorn and headed for final battle. It makes it more interesting.

By the way, has anyone actually gone after Jaheira in the Harper Hold after she leaves. I walked in there once and found her there ready to rejoin. My problem was I had a full group so I went back to an earlier save and just went on to final without her.

[super_smasher3]

Yes I did as soon as she left. She causes all kinds of problems with the Harpers (or maybe that's before she leaves you...I forget).

[Imrahil]

Originally posted by Butterfingers: I have been thinking a great deal about Yoshimo. And I think the game designers botched what could have been a much better aspect of the game. I think it would have been far more interesting through conversation options to find out that Yoshimo was under a Geas and then try and find a way to save him before Spellhold. Perhaps put it on a timer, once you figured it out and confronted him, as a Geas usually has a way of causing people to self distruct.

I lean towards leaving Yoshimo as is. He's one of the most interesting NPC's because of his betrayal - when it first happened to me (maybe my 3rd or 4th game I actually kept him with me - til then I always wondered why he *poofed* in the Copper Coronet after Spellhold) I was totally floored. That was a really memorable moment in the game for me.

You are given a few, very minor, hints which are really only apparent in retrospect (i.e. after keeping him in the party while knowing what's going to happen), so I'm in favor of keeping the "surprise factor" that's built in. Adding more hints, particularly adding enough to know about it & prevent it, would ruin what is, IMO, one of the best WTF?, shock-value moments in the game.

- Imrahil

[Pirengle]

Originally posted by Butterfingers: I think it would have been far more interesting through conversation options to find out that Yoshimo was under a Geas and then try and find a way to save him before Spellhold. Perhaps put it on a timer, once you figured it out and confronted him, as a Geas usually has a way of causing people to self distruct.

Originally posted by Imrahil: I lean towards leaving Yoshimo as is...You are given a few, very minor, hints which are really only apparent in retrospect (i.e. after keeping him in the party while knowing what's going to happen), so I'm in favor of keeping the "surprise factor" that's built in. Adding more hints, particularly adding enough to know about it & prevent it, would ruin what is, IMO, one of the best WTF?, shock-value moments in the game.

I agree with Butterfingers' sentiment, but Imrahil's reasons. Yoshimo kicks butt. Best NPC thief in the game. Only pureclass thief in the game. Awesome stats and thief skills. His soundset is easy on the ears (even his 19-20 reputation whining), and he has funny exchanges. I nearly peed myself laughing at Yoshimo's then Valygar's responses to the thief outside the Planar Sphere that wants to sell them the sphere.

The whole "betrayal" aspect was neat. Something I wish could've happened in BG1 since everyone and their brother wants to kill you for who you are or who you're allied with. What made Yoshimo so interesting that he ended up in Chateau Irenicus? I believe that the real reason why Chateau Irenicus is so easy is because Yoshimo was originally supposed to get the party into more trouble than they bargained for.

All this mystery in the man and they cram it into 2 dialogues? How 'bout a more active role in party sabotage, eh, Yoshi?