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Old 09-12-2001, 03:54 PM   #31
DragonMage
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Join Date: September 6, 2001
Location: The lighter side of life, a.k.a. Newnan, Georgia
Age: 48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
DragonMage, the media doesn't concentrate on such foreign envents precisely because the American public doesn't really care about such events. We are more concerned with who is going to win the next Super Bowl.

Now, don't get me wrong here, this isn't a flame, but I don't see how you can think that somehow John Q. Public dictates what's reported on the t.v. and radio. I don't think I was ever asked what I'd like to hear or see. I watch what's presented and often find it lacking (part of the reason I don't bother to watch the news sometimes). I feel that they don't want us to know all that's going on "out there". It's the same in other countries...they only tell the general population what they want them to know. I think we're probably going to continue to disagree on this, though. Your other posts indicate that you are quite set on what you believe, which is okay, but leaves you with little room to consider the validity of what someone else has to say.

Love ya, though!

------------------
"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

"I'm INVINCIBLE! ... You're a LOONEY!"

Dare to dream. Be bold enough to try.

The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)
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Old 09-12-2001, 03:55 PM   #32
Diogenes Of Pumpkintown
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Join Date: August 9, 2001
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Posts: 694
Quote:
Originally posted by Cloudbringer:
Dio, while I DO understand your point, I've got to say that a life is a life and I cry when someone is blown up on a bus in Israel or shot in northern Ireland or gunned down in Bosnia or Palestine... need I go on? This has 'my countrymen' overtones,yes, but again LIVES were taken. That's what counts for me.

YES, this hit us all very hard here in the US, but I also think it's a valid point that many of us would be equally outraged if this happened someplace else. We are not all alike, and I don't for one minute think I'm speaking for everyone, but I know that I do speak for many. Tragedies of this magnitude are horrendous ANYWHERE.

Cloudy


Dear Cloudy, unfortunately not everyone shares your compassion for other human beings, whether foreign or domestic.

I am very well aware that many americans are exceptions to the general rule I have described (Thank God for that!) .
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Old 09-12-2001, 03:59 PM   #33
Ramon de Ramon y Ramon
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Cologne, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
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Posts: 1,517
Quote:
Originally posted by Mouse:
Generally, I have kept my own council so far on this whole tragic situation, but I have just read a bunch of posts and would like to show my appreciation to Kaz on the maturity and level-headedness of her contributions. Your responses have put some of us older contributors to shame.

If you ever decide to go into politics, let me know so I can vote for you (if I lived in Germany )

Yeah ! Kaz for Federal Chancellor !

And she would be establishing a new political tradition as the current occupant of that position has also studied in Göttingen ...

Now, I will send in a petition demanding that the minimum age of eligibility for that position should be lowered to 16 first thing tomorrow. That would give her another year to prepare herself a little - not that she really needed that though ...


------------------
So long !

R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks

Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

[This message has been edited by Ramon de Ramon y Ramon (edited 09-12-2001).]
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Old 09-12-2001, 04:05 PM   #34
Diogenes Of Pumpkintown
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Quote:
Originally posted by DragonMage:
Now, don't get me wrong here, this isn't a flame, but I don't see how you can think that somehow John Q. Public dictates what's reported on the t.v. and radio. I don't think I was ever asked what I'd like to hear or see. I watch what's presented and often find it lacking (part of the reason I don't bother to watch the news sometimes). I feel that they don't want us to know all that's going on "out there". It's the same in other countries...they only tell the general population what they want them to know. I think we're probably going to continue to disagree on this, though. Your other posts indicate that you are quite set on what you believe, which is okay, but leaves you with little room to consider the validity of what someone else has to say.

Love ya, though!

I try to be flexible and keep an open mind. Please, you and Cloudy do convince me I am being too cynical here. I would like that

In any case, the media operates mainly by the funding provided by advertisements. In a sense, the media is in the business of selling advertisement space. The interests who buy the advertisement space do so because they want their messages exposed to as large a number of people as possible. Consequently, advertisers finance shows that will be popular with the public, and do not finance shows that will not be. In short, the media (because of the advertisers which finance them) tries to deliver to the public exactly what the public wants. Of course, there are exceptions, but that is the bottom line.
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Old 09-12-2001, 04:06 PM   #35
Kaz
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
 

Join Date: August 16, 2001
Location: UK
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Thank you, thank you, Ramon3 and Mouse! Two votes secured already! (although one won't count...) *bows*
Seriously - Schroeder studied in Goettingen? I didn't know that!

------------------


Kazara

Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe
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Old 09-12-2001, 04:18 PM   #36
DragonMage
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Join Date: September 6, 2001
Location: The lighter side of life, a.k.a. Newnan, Georgia
Age: 48
Posts: 2,767
Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
I try to be flexible and keep an open mind. Please, you and Cloudy do convince me I am being too cynical here. I would like that

In any case, the media operates mainly by the funding provided by advertisements. In a sense, the media is in the business of selling advertisement space. The interests who buy the advertisement space do so because they want their messages exposed to as large a number of people as possible. Consequently, advertisers finance shows that will be popular with the public, and do not finance shows that will not be. In short, the media (because of the advertisers which finance them) tries to deliver to the public exactly what the public wants. Of course, there are exceptions, but that is the bottom line.
Well, finally we agree on some part of this. That of the media being more run by those selling advertising. And I at least now understand more of your feelings of "only what the public wants", but as stated in a different thread (sorry I can't remember who said it - he used to censor the API/UPI stuff coming over the wires) they delete out so much before it ever gets to "the public". We have no real decision. Not only that - THEY decided what we wanted to hear or see.

When I dig up a really pertinent story off the internet from overseas and share it with people I work with, they are shocked AND interested. Maybe we need to write someone (local to Federal government) once this all settles down a bit and tell them (en masse) that we WANT to know what's going on!!!

I do agree, though, to a degree that, if it's bad we usually don't want to hear it. But I don't think that's really any different than the mass populace of most other countries. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't report it to us, though. I was raised to face up to the bad stuff, deal with it and go on. Maybe I'm in the minority here (being raised that way). We, the general public, may have been more prepared than this if we had been more informed by the media of what is taking place everywhere else. I, for one, was not surprised that it happened. In my personal circle of family and friends, we've been saying that it was going to happen soon (for the last year or so). But we dig a little deeper online into news than most...

------------------
"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

"I'm INVINCIBLE! ... You're a LOONEY!"

Dare to dream. Be bold enough to try.

The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

[This message has been edited by DragonMage (edited 09-12-2001).]
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Old 09-12-2001, 04:21 PM   #37
Donut
Jack Burton
 

Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Airstrip One
Age: 33
Posts: 5,571
Quote:
Originally posted by DragonMage:
Now, don't get me wrong here, this isn't a flame, but I don't see how you can think that somehow John Q. Public dictates what's reported on the t.v. and radio. I don't think I was ever asked what I'd like to hear or see. I watch what's presented and often find it lacking (part of the reason I don't bother to watch the news sometimes). I feel that they don't want us to know all that's going on "out there". It's the same in other countries...they only tell the general population what they want them to know. I think we're probably going to continue to disagree on this, though. Your other posts indicate that you are quite set on what you believe, which is okay, but leaves you with little room to consider the validity of what someone else has to say.

Love ya, though!

I think the public does dictate what is shown on TV. If the media shows stuff that the public doesn't want the ratings go down. The dictating is done indirectly rather than overtly.



------------------

Save Chip - Don't let Sarah win!
Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas
Don't mention the score - I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it!
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Old 09-12-2001, 04:24 PM   #38
DragonMage
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Join Date: September 6, 2001
Location: The lighter side of life, a.k.a. Newnan, Georgia
Age: 48
Posts: 2,767
Quote:
Originally posted by Donut:
I think the public does dictate what is shown on TV. If the media shows stuff that the public doesn't want the ratings go down. The dictating is done indirectly rather than overtly.
But (this pertaining to NEWS only - not programming), if all the news programs reported the WHOLE TRUTH, we'd have no choice but to hear it...The good, the bad and the ugly. I remember when I was MUCH younger, the news for DAYS would seem so bleak. Then they started reporting the bleak and end with a few positives (good samaritans and the like). Then they stopped reporting the bleak at all. If they had kept reporting the bad with some good at the end to lift us up in the end, we would all still watch. Don't you agree?

------------------
"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

"I'm INVINCIBLE! ... You're a LOONEY!"

Dare to dream. Be bold enough to try.

The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

[This message has been edited by DragonMage (edited 09-12-2001).]
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Old 09-12-2001, 08:38 PM   #39
Moni
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Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Tuor:
A point of accuracy here:
Since Vietnam and the occasion on which 17 GIs got killed and 51 were injured in a shoot out in a Somalian market the US has not been 'most willing to go into other countries and lend a hand against terrorism attacks world-wide.'

The US has however been more than willing to launch cruise missiles against terrorist targets and quite rightly so many people would say. There is a important difference between those two policies. One endangers the lives of servicemen the other does not.

The US has been willing to act in a peacekeeping capacity and invade other countries to maintain the peace (and oil supplies) but there is a difference between that and anti-terrorist operations. In anti terrorist operations your soldiers are a target every day and you will lose soldiers regularly-examples are Northern Ireland, Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Spain etc etc

The US government has repeatedly shown that the protection of its servicemen is of prime importance-even below the importance of retailiation in some cases.[/B]
The U.S. spends a significant amount of money maintaining military bases all over the world. Is this for our own protection or for the policing of countries who would pose a threat to the peace of their neighbors or even the rest of the world? Do you think terrorism would be more rampant without their presence?

Why was the U.S. involved in the Iran-Iraq conflict in the 80's?

How is it that the Syrians were able to kill 248 American Marines in 1983 if our country did not care enough to set themselves up in other people's countries for those people's protection?

Am I wrong in remembering that our involvement in the Iran-Iraq conflict got us dogged world-wide for sticking our nose into other people's business for the purpose of protecting people who could not protect themselves from terrorists?

The rest of the world cries for help when they need it but then screams foul when we take the upper hand...can you blame this country for taking a back seat to going in first when there are treaties protecting the lives of terrorists now?

Daniel Pipes (director of the middle eastern forum, former director of the Foreign Policy Research Institute), who has a slew of credits toward his education and accomplishments as well as being a well respected journalist and international consultant for a number of boards poses the question regarding the Hamas infrastructure of the United States:

"As these fundamentalist groups become more aggressive, more forceful, how will America respond? By appeasing them?" He then offers his suggestion: "The U.S. government and body politic should discredit them like it does the KKK. It should uplift the non-radical Moslems."

A suggestion for a completely peaceful process...one that this country needs to follow if they don't want the rest of the world up in arms over our show of force in stopping terrorists when they can easily come from organizations that we allow to exist within our very borders.

Of Chabali's plan to bring down the reign of the Saddam Hussien regime and for for enforcing the UN sanctioned inspections on Iraq?

"I'm of two minds. Saddam is ghastly, from both a human point of view and from an American-interest point of view. But we Americans have a tendency to burden ourselves with other people's problems and thereby letting every one else off the hook. Why are we begging the local countries in the region to join our efforts? The Kuwaitis are standoffish, and why not? America is doing all the work anyway, they say, so we might as well reap the benefits. I'd like to turn the equation a round: have them pleading with us to take care of Saddam."

These examples are some time after Vietnam are they not?

More American lives have been lost on foreign soils for nothing more than the protection of people's basic human rights than any other country that I am presently aware of.
War against other people's human rights and "ethnic cleansing" is as much "terrorism" as car bombings and crashing airplanes full of innocent people into large occupied and innocent buildings. If countries have not recieved any help from the U.S. I can only think that it would be because they have refused it or will not ask for it.

Can you correct me if I am wrong here?

Here is another example of just how much the U.S. cares:
A Tribute In One Man's Perspective


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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

[URL=http://www.hometown.aol.com/MickySchwartz2]Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is

[This message has been edited by Moni (edited 09-12-2001).]
 
Old 09-12-2001, 08:41 PM   #40
250
Horus - Egyptian Sky God
 

Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: either CA or MO
Age: 35
Posts: 2,674
people here are great

I mourn for them NOT because they are americans, but because they are PEOPLE. humans who deserve to live and be loved and love
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