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Old 09-11-2001, 06:11 PM   #91
G'kar
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Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
What do you mean what could this mean? It means that the planes will be escorted by Fighters and will not be permitted to approach places they aren't supposed to...or am I missing some nuance of the words??

This isnt a flame, Im just confused as to what you are implying.


This is a response to the opinion that hijacked commercial airliners would NOT be shot down if they posed a larger threat to life or national security. The only way to stop one is to shoot it down, short of boarding it. So I doubt a mere "escort" would do anything.
 
Old 09-11-2001, 06:15 PM   #92
MagiK
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To G'kar Ahh Okie doke i understand now...make no mistake, they would be shot down should it come time to make that descision to save the greater number of lives.

------------------
Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.
 
Old 09-11-2001, 06:18 PM   #93
Gabriel
Emerald Dragon
 

Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: England
Age: 34
Posts: 920
Quote:
Originally posted by Ryanamur:
Sorry to say that you're thinking in grey... civilians are not part of the equation. You and your objective are all that matters, nothing else is relevant.
(remember, this is war, you have to be cold)

I totally agree about the NO WARNING... I should have said it in my post rather than insinuating it.
I think if a member of you famliy was living next door to a terrorist and they were killed in a attack with no warning and chocked up as neccity losses YOU would not be able the keep such a view.- besides I think such actions are war crimes.
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Old 09-11-2001, 06:19 PM   #94
Ryanamur
Fzoul Chembryl
 

Join Date: March 29, 2001
Location: Montréal, Canada
Age: 43
Posts: 1,763
Quote:
Originally posted by Gabriel:
Yes but the killing the 25 innocents will fuel the fires of the Terrorist, then if you kill those who join because of this where will it stop? Terrorisum is something that can never be destoryed, better to let them stay and intrate them, while some bombing have to be let to happen to keep the cover, you can (hopefully) prevent the major ones.
Gabriel,

Once again, I fully understand the consequences of doing this. The idea here is not to stop terrorism... it's merely to displace the battlefield from our backyards to their backyards. The end result will be the same: people (and alot of innocent ones) will die. There's no two way around it.

I would rather nobody die and that we all live in a utopic society where everyone is happy. But, if I have to choose between my wife and children dying or the other guys wife and children dying... I pick the other guy.

Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
Words that would make any terrorist proud.

There's only one way to fight terrorism: terrorism. If you're not prepared to do this, if society is not ready to do this, they will win because they are.

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Old 09-11-2001, 06:21 PM   #95
Ryanamur
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Join Date: March 29, 2001
Location: Montréal, Canada
Age: 43
Posts: 1,763
Quote:
Originally posted by Gabriel:
I think if a member of you famliy was living next door to a terrorist and they were killed in a attack with no warning and chocked up as neccity losses YOU would not be able the keep such a view.- besides I think such actions are war crimes.
Nope. Terrorism is not an act of war therefore, killing civilian by commiting terrorism is not contrary to the Geneva Convention and not a war crime.

But again, war law is dictated by the winners. Would you rather they dictate the law?

[This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 09-11-2001).]
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Old 09-11-2001, 06:22 PM   #96
Staralfur
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Join Date: April 8, 2001
Location: Nottingham, UK
Age: 37
Posts: 786
Quote:
Originally posted by Neb:
Maybe using snipers and small teams of elite soldiers would be just as effective? That way, you can also find such nice things at their camps as papers and reciepts(Maybe not reciepts) proving that they've been funded by some country or another, if they were funded by a country of course, but if such things ARE at their camps, then they would be hard to find after the camp has just been incinerated by 100 gallons of Napalm or 10 cruise missiles.

Bin Laden is an Arabian billionaire who has decided that it is his mission in lift to lead a group of terrorists against America, so he doesn't really need funding.

Anyway, it wasn't just money needed for this, where are you going to find at least 4, probably more people to fly a plane into a building. All of which, I suspect, have no link beforehand.

[This message has been edited by Staralfur (edited 09-11-2001).]
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Old 09-11-2001, 06:25 PM   #97
250
Horus - Egyptian Sky God
 

Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: either CA or MO
Age: 35
Posts: 2,674
I don't care why they did it, I want them dead
but we must harm not the innocents
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Old 09-11-2001, 06:28 PM   #98
Gabriel
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Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: England
Age: 34
Posts: 920
Quote:
Originally posted by Ryanamur:

Gabriel,

Once again, I fully understand the consequences of doing this. The idea here is not to stop terrorism... it's merely to displace the battlefield from our backyards to their backyards. The end result will be the same: people (and alot of innocent ones) will die. There's no two way around it.

I would rather nobody die and that we all live in a utopic society where everyone is happy. But, if I have to choose between my wife and children dying or the other guys wife and children dying... I pick the other guy.

You say you understand but I don't think you do, the act you suggest would lead to new terrorist that would move in secret, that would be worse, they might travel into the US uncover and it will start again, it not like they have terrorist written on their pass-ports. The only way would be to close the US so no one gets in, but there will be enough simpthizes in the US (friends fammily etc) for groups to appear in the US.
You can never remove terrorism from any country, it seed will allways exist. All such actions will do is to make people in others country simipths with the terrorists and that would make them stronger and less the Us in the worlds view. There is no 'Win' to such actions only 'Lose'

[This message has been edited by Gabriel (edited 09-11-2001).]
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Old 09-11-2001, 06:29 PM   #99
Ryanamur
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Join Date: March 29, 2001
Location: Montréal, Canada
Age: 43
Posts: 1,763
Quote:
Originally posted by Gabriel:
I think if a member of you famliy was living next door to a terrorist and they were killed in a attack with no warning and chocked up as neccity losses YOU would not be able the keep such a view.- besides I think such actions are war crimes.
Sorry, forgot to answer the first comment (and the way the discussion is going, I opted for another post.)

Again, you're thinking in grey. No, I wouldn't like it. I would sure hope that my familly would not die in such an horrific way. However, I cannot let this thought cloud my judgement. If I was a military strategist (which I'm not... but probably should be ) I would not let my judgement be clouded by the morality of the issue. Yes, it is horrific that innocent would die in the process. However, I would rather the other guy's familly died then mine. If I start projecting pain from the impact, I would not bomb them... I would not kill them which means that the terrorist (who really doesn't give a damn about anything but the CAUSE) can still hijack a plane and crash it in Disney World when I'm there for a visit.

It's war. There's nothing pretty about war. The aim of war is to dominate your ennemy by ANY means available. If you loose you're dead and if you win, you don't have to worry about the consequenses because you make the law.

Black and White.

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If I am because I think, then, if I talk without thinking, I'm not really talking! Am I?
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Old 09-11-2001, 06:32 PM   #100
Diogenes Of Pumpkintown
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Join Date: August 9, 2001
Location: ...
Posts: 694
Quote:
Originally posted by Ryanamur:
There's only one way to fight terrorism: terrorism. If you're not prepared to do this, if society is not ready to do this, they will win because they are.

What we have to fight is the idea that killing innocents is perfectly okay if done for the right cause. This applies as much to the vileness you are spewing as to that of any OTHER terrorist. My god, man, your mentality on this is EXACTLY the same as the terrorists themselves. Innocent people everywhere need to be protected both from the terrorists you are attacking and the form of terrorism you are advocating!!!!!!

I am going to withdraw from this discussion for now to cool off a bit, before I really get angry.
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