Should you smack your children?

Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol: So its not ok to smack your kids when your angry. Do you have to wait until your happy to spank them? Perhaps institute a series of random spankings at random times and random severity just to "keep them on their toes"? After all they have to have done SOMETHING wrong at some point.

What the hell are you talking about?

LOA if you want to contribbute meaningful dialog you are welcome but the mods have asked that the troll behaviour be checked at the door..please do so.

You have obviously just chosen to attack my point of view and only used a very tiny piece of it to do so.[/QUOTE]I guess I should point out how you disparage any opinion but your own. So yea I made fun of you. You post purely to argue and are unwilling to look at any side of the arguement except yours. Why do you do that? I'd really like to know. Why start an arguemnt if your completely unwilling to be flexible and admit someone had a good point? On this I'm not refering to this thread in particular but in a lot of your posts. Most of the time all I see you doing is argueing. Whats up with that?[/QUOTE]So far I havent disparaged any opinion, I have disagreed with many, and discounted anyone's opinion who didn't meet my criteria for knowing what they are talking about. I did at first do this in a blunt and direct manner, then I softened up and tried to be more politicly correct. Im not telling all parents that they HAVE to spank their child. I have been defending my choice to spank my children. Of course since my view is the unpopular view with children and with what adults we have here, I am the one being disparaged mostly. I think more than anything I have been the attacked not the attacker. Thats fine as long as limits are kept..such as the ones I mentioned in my previous post to you.

I also know that I am speaking from an advantaged position, I have two great kids to show for my efforts as a parent. So while I may never be considered a great literary figure with my posts, I have the pleasure of knowing I did right bymy kids, and that all of those on here who poo pooed my views, may some day actually have to face being parents and we shall see how they fare...if they choose to share their successes and failures with us. I also know that I still have to see how we get through my childrens teen years...the insanity that is puberty has not hit my 11 year old...but we shall see what we shall see.

Oh and one more thing, the last few posts directed at me have been focusing on the spanking, there is a whole lot more involved with parenting and punishment for that matter than spanking. There are ten thousand little things that go into raising a child and spanking is only one of them.

I am also esposing the fact that since the 1960's the manners and behaviour of our children have grown progressivley worse, indicating that something new has been added to the raising of children..one (and ONLY one) of which is that the pacifistic approach to child rearing has gained sway. There are other factors to be sure..single parent familys for one..this is a major bane to children the world over. Kids do need two parents.

lastly why am I arguing? Well at first I was just hoping to drill it into some young heads that they need to accept that they do not know what raising a child is like and that speculating on how they will do it is pointles, and that maybe they might also open up to some actually tested and accepted practices. such as not punishing while you are angry, useing spanking when necessary and being consistent....so I guess since Ive pretty well just ennunciated my MAIN points...guess I should just shut up.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Absynthe: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Nope nope, see Im pretty sure that YOU are out of diapers and are worth talking to...some times So you will just have to be prepared to have me respond to you at irregular intervals. [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img]

Ah, poop! You NEVER give me what I want... you like Caleb better, don't you?[/QB][/QUOTE]I could spank you, for sassing your elders, young man! [img]graemlins/whipitgood.gif[/img]

[The.Relic]

Heh, Magik. I am no saint! And Yorick and my friends here who have known me for almost 2 years also know that I am probably among those here with about the lowest sense of self esteem. They think very highly of me, while I spend a great deal of time putting myself down if I let myself get on the subject. Just about the only area of my life in which they see me radiant and full of joy is when I talk about my children.
I spent a tremendous amount of time learning to examine myself, sorting my feelings and emotions and learning to place them properly within their proper circumstances and places. I never raise my voice to my children or discuss problems with them until I have sorted everything out in my own mind first. And when I have, I always realize that any anger that I feel, really is never genuinely toward them. I find my anger and frustration are ALWAYS with myself. It is my emotions and feelings that allow me to become angry, and it is due to my own imperfections and inability to remain calm and objective to see things clearly. So we wait before we talk about problems if I do get to feeling emotional. We will talk about and do other things until I know that I am ready to deal with the situation maturely and responsibly the way I know that I should, and the way that they deserve to be treated. And I am blessed that they love me as much as they do. I can say this. There mom is a smacker, and the comparison in the relationship that they have with each of us is startling.

[Ladyzekke]

Originally posted by MagiK: There are ten thousand little things that go into raising a child and spanking is only one of them.

Well I raised other points re parenting but you ignored all of them, you seemed more interested in tearing down other people's ideas.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by MagiK: Yorik you simply are NOT reading my posts. I make it a habbit NEVER to spank my children while I am angry, thus they do NOT equate spanking with anger, what they equate it with is going way beyond the line that they know they should not cross. I havent had to spank in several years now, and My kids have become quite well behaved and happy kids, they know the rules and they know the punishments. [/QB]

OK, I'm confused. So when one of your children acts up and needs to be punished and you are angry at the actions of the child, what do you do? You don't hit when angry so .... what? Sit down and watch tv til you stop being angry then walk up to the child say "You did a bad thing" and whack him on the butt?

Sorry, but it IS hard to follow. You say you never hit in anger but if the child has gone beyond the limits you set, are you saying you never get angry? Or that you delay punishment til after the child has long since done the bad thing? I would think a spanking too long AFTER the deed that drew it is less effective if it's effective at all.

[Lord of Alcohol]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol: So its not ok to smack your kids when your angry. Do you have to wait until your happy to spank them? Perhaps institute a series of random spankings at random times and random severity just to "keep them on their toes"? After all they have to have done SOMETHING wrong at some point.

What the hell are you talking about?

LOA if you want to contribbute meaningful dialog you are welcome but the mods have asked that the troll behaviour be checked at the door..please do so.

You have obviously just chosen to attack my point of view and only used a very tiny piece of it to do so.[/QUOTE]I guess I should point out how you disparage any opinion but your own. So yea I made fun of you. You post purely to argue and are unwilling to look at any side of the arguement except yours. Why do you do that? I'd really like to know. Why start an arguemnt if your completely unwilling to be flexible and admit someone had a good point? On this I'm not refering to this thread in particular but in a lot of your posts. Most of the time all I see you doing is argueing. Whats up with that?[/QUOTE]So far I havent disparaged any opinion, I have disagreed with many, and discounted anyone's opinion who didn't meet my criteria for knowing what they are talking about. I did at first do this in a blunt and direct manner, then I softened up and tried to be more politicly correct. Im not telling all parents that they HAVE to spank their child. I have been defending my choice to spank my children. Of course since my view is the unpopular view with children and with what adults we have here, I am the one being disparaged mostly. I think more than anything I have been the attacked not the attacker. Thats fine as long as limits are kept..such as the ones I mentioned in my previous post to you.

I also know that I am speaking from an advantaged position, I have two great kids to show for my efforts as a parent. So while I may never be considered a great literary figure with my posts, I have the pleasure of knowing I did right bymy kids, and that all of those on here who poo pooed my views, may some day actually have to face being parents and we shall see how they fare...if they choose to share their successes and failures with us. I also know that I still have to see how we get through my childrens teen years...the insanity that is puberty has not hit my 11 year old...but we shall see what we shall see.

Oh and one more thing, the last few posts directed at me have been focusing on the spanking, there is a whole lot more involved with parenting and punishment for that matter than spanking. There are ten thousand little things that go into raising a child and spanking is only one of them.

I am also esposing the fact that since the 1960's the manners and behaviour of our children have grown progressivley worse, indicating that something new has been added to the raising of children..one (and ONLY one) of which is that the pacifistic approach to child rearing has gained sway. There are other factors to be sure..single parent familys for one..this is a major bane to children the world over. Kids do need two parents.

lastly why am I arguing? Well at first I was just hoping to drill it into some young heads that they need to accept that they do not know what raising a child is like and that speculating on how they will do it is pointles, and that maybe they might also open up to some actually tested and accepted practices. such as not punishing while you are angry, useing spanking when necessary and being consistent....so I guess since Ive pretty well just ennunciated my MAIN points...guess I should just shut up.[/QUOTE]If you look at the overall tone of your posts in an OBJECTIVE manner I think you would see what I mean. You attack everyone that doesnt agree with you. Not as an outright flame but you attack nonetheless. As I stated earlier not just in this thread. I will freely admit I'm an asshole, but I CAN see other points of an arguement without attacking them. I can admit someone might have a point. I DONT mean this as a flame towards you but you seem to have a problem with those that dont agree with you. It is also a failing of mine that I've been trying to change. Doesnt always work but I try.

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by ladyzekke: I still think using pain to control a human being only tells said child that the bigger and stronger ones have all the power, doesn't mean that the child will truly comprehend why what he/she did was wrong. Pain has a way of "distracting" one's mind away from everything but said pain, and fear too. Later on in years, once the child grows up and is bigger and stronger, he/she might use pain to get what they want as well. Depends on the child of course, but it IS a possibility that should be kept in mind.

Yes, I totally agree. [img]smile.gif[/img] Raising kids through spanking is a very primitive way. As if ages of evolution didn't teach us anything. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by MagiK: yes I know you did [img]smile.gif[/img] but you were not claiming to be this saintly person. And I never said that Relic wasn't just that it was very hard to believe and that Id take his word for it...and then commented on the fact that I personally have never met someone who had never raised their voice....again...my limitation not his.

No worries MagiK.

It occurs to me that you may have more at stake in this discussion. If you are wrong, you'd then presumably be dealing with a lot of guilt right? Better to hold to the notion that, as hard as it may be, hitting a child is the right thing. Tougher on the parent. Cruel to be kind etc etc...

But no-one's attacking your parenting. As Moiraine said, no parent is perfect. It sounds like your kids love you and will love you.

"Love covers a multitude of sins" is a biblical saying which can apply to parenting.

However, we are talking about a benchmark for society. A society which is saturated in violence. Males in particular have been traditionally quick to resolve a problem physically. Think war. Duels. Pub/bar brawls. Gangland territorial disputes.

Rolemodelling is so significant in a childs education, provoking imitation or reactive repulsion.

Increasingly we have seen efforts to change male attitudes to violence within western society. It follows that this applys to all things. Wife, child, pets, hunting, whaling, fishing, farming conditions. Attitudes are changing.

You are correct in assessing a decline in childrens behaviour. But then Plato and Socrates held similar notions in ancient Athens. It is likely that no one reason is the cause for the problems. Creating children who are not desensitised to gratituous TV/film violence could be a step in the right direction.

Establishing lower tolerance thresholds for violence is another. It begins at home. In homes.

You may be doing the right thing, but plenty do not. Plenty cross the 'line' I was talking about.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by MagiK: I never said Logic was the key to spanking dude. I was just trying to convey the fact that any one who thinks they can "talk" their 3 year old out of chewing on the lamp cord or talk them out of sticking a fork in their little sister just doesnt have a grasp of what raising a kid is like, they do not want to discuss their behaviour the only thing that really stays in their minds are the strongest natural teaching sensations. good taste, bad taste, pain, pleasure the word NO has little meaning for children until they associate it with a well remembered sensation. Let me know the next time you raise a child never having raised your voice and only having reasoned with them to the age of 3 and let me know how it works out.[/QB]

I taught a 3yr old not to hit the cat by talking to him. Me: "Ross, do you like to be hit?" Ross: "no!" Me: "Ross, do you want me to hit you like you hit the kitty?" Ross: "NO!!" Me: "Does hitting hurt you?" Ross: "uh huh" Me: "you don't like to be hit, do you? Well kitty doesn't either. OUCH!"

I pet the cat nicely, then pet the child nicely on the arm and told him that the Kitty liked THAT kind of touch. He saw how the cat stretched and stayed for the petting and to my knowledge, never hit the cat again.

As for the fork scenario... I suppose if you had to you could 'mock' poke the misbehaving child and ask if he liked it.

[ 05-17-2002, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

[Ladyzekke]

Thanks Moiraine! Yes I think it is best to teach your kids to use their mind to solve problems, not your hands or fists like cavemen. Oh no, now I have that horrible 70's song in my head, remember "Troglodite"? Oh I MUST turn something on to get that out of my head LOL!

And just for the record, I already know for a fact that you are a great Mom Moiraine, having known you for two years now. [img]smile.gif[/img] You are such a loving, concerned, unselfish person, sometimes I wonder if you are an Angel in disguise Hey, when is it your son's Birthday again? I remember when we all sent him an e-card for his birthday last year [img]smile.gif[/img]