Medical experimentation?

Should terminally ill patients be allowed to volunteer for high risk experimental medicnes or treatments even if animal testing hasn't been complete or the FDA or AMA has not approved the procedure or medicine for humans?

If you say No.....why would you take a slim dangerous chance for the terminal patient at life?

If you say Yes, what abuses do you think might take place if they are permitted this?

Im wondering because of a story I heard today about inoperable tumors in the brain.

[WillowIX]

Excellent topic my dear MagiK. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

I say NO until the the first phases of testing are done. You do not try drugs on humans when you do not know the effect. After the first phases are complete then I say YES, since then you know that the substance you use have the desired effect and therefore it might be worth to see if it works properly on humans, if the patients are willing. [img]smile.gif[/img]

OT: Did you also find the articles about curing brain tumors with viral vectors? Very cool! Went to a seminar where the German scientist who developed this treatment talked about their findings. Very cool! [img]smile.gif[/img]

As a matter of fact it was the Viral Vector article that prompted the thread [img]smile.gif[/img] The article was in a thing I get with my copy of MIT's Technology in Review. (a hopelessly leftist organization but they do have some good science) [img]smile.gif[/img]

Two question...what is TTD and what is the Willow Stick?

[ 05-07-2003, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Sir Byronas]

You said "volunteer" if I am not mistaken MagiK. In my opinion YES but only if the patient had a very serious decease and no tested medicine have been produced so far for that decease. Otherwise, why play with your life like this? So probably my answer is NO.

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by MagiK: As a matter of fact it was the Viral Vector article that prompted the thread [img]smile.gif[/img] The article was in a thing I get with my copy of MIT's Technology in Review. (a hopelessly leftist organization but they do have some good science) [img]smile.gif[/img] Two question...what is TTD and what is the Willow Stick?

So you have read it then. But this treatment isn´t drugs per se. These vectors were very accurate and therefore there was no real danger of side effects. I think they were a little surprised by the very positive effect of the vectors. [img]smile.gif[/img] Politics again? *sighs* [img]tongue.gif[/img]

The willow stick is what is used in this smiley I believe [img]graemlins/whackya.gif[/img] . It was invented in the buildup of the Willow vs Timber fight that got canceled. TTD is a very popular holiday occurring February 6th. It´s Teasing Timber Day.

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally posted by Sir Byronas: You said "volunteer" if I am not mistaken MagiK.

Keep in mind that while the best case scenario is that the patient is fully informed and knows exactly the risks and their own situation should they take/not take the experimental medication, so they WOULD be truly volunteering, there would often be situations where they were not capable of making fully informed voluntary consent, their doctor does not give them complete information, or has a stake in the experimental medication which would prompt them to suggest their trying it with a more positive slant than if they were completely objective, or the patient was not fully aware of their own chances of recovery/living. I suppose then given that my answer would be no, at least as Willow said until a degree of certainty as to the safety of the treatment has been established.

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: Keep in mind that while the best case scenario is that the patient is fully informed and knows exactly the risks and their own situation should they take/not take the experimental medication, so they WOULD be truly volunteering, there would often be situations where they were not capable of making fully informed voluntary consent, their doctor does not give them complete information, or has a stake in the experimental medication which would prompt them to suggest their trying it with a more positive slant than if they were completely objective, or the patient was not fully aware of their own chances of recovery/living. I suppose then given that my answer would be no, at least as Willow said until a degree of certainty as to the safety of the treatment has been established.

Very good points Aelia. [img]smile.gif[/img] The last thing we would like to see during operations is lawyers pouncing on possible lawsuits. However I would like to point out that this scenario already takes place in several countries. When all hope is gone and all well known treatments have been used, there is the option of using new, untreated drugs. Untreated in the sense that it hasn´t been used often enough to specify side effects. [img]smile.gif[/img] When there is nothing to loose this option becomes available. So volunteering is perhaps not the bes word to describe the whole procedure. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Remember everyone that I am talking hoplessly terminal patients here....guarenteed death in the near future with no treatment.

[Kakero]

I say yes, since the patient is dying anyway, this might give a chance for the patient to cure him of his illness. who knows out of the experimentation the doctor finally found a cure that can save millions of life.

if not, I myself would be dead by now. I thank the doctors for saving my life.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by WillowIX: TTD is a very popular holiday occurring February 6th. It´s Teasing Timber Day.

Ah, yes, a day celebrating the time honored tradition of taking your local wacko canuck chick out into the woods where she repeatedly screams "na na na na boo boo" at the forest. Quite the fun event, depending on how much beer and snow is involved.