3rd Edition rules a turn off?

[Konfuzed and Zany]

quote:

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Originally posted by Milenya D'Aufleur:

6. The game seems to have been made for younger children, (now that WOTC is now part of the Mattel company (hello, Barbie), why not keep it where it was. It was a lot easier to understand. THAC0 and the ability to hit was a lot easier to figure out, along with saving throws and the like.

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[Pretends to be Rikard_OHF]

IMHO To Hit bonusses are way easier to understand then THACO [img]tongue.gif[/img]
just put your hart in it
There ARE Bladesinger Prestige Classes

And it's exactly that (the prestige classes) which in my opinion makes 3e way more fun

[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: Konfuzed and Zany ]

[WOLFGIR]

Clearly.. Too few of you have played the 3:ed rules for long it seems of you that don´t like it. (and I don´t mean to be rude here). But alot of the things you mention are so wrong, so downgrading and so untrue.

Don´t compare it see it as a new game. Try it, really try it, don´t think of it as ADD, but really try it, and their are magic items in 3:ed that would make your charcter scram with happiness. There are bladesinger classes. The game is getting new modules, the game is more a strategic game then 2:nd edition. Thac0 and to hit easier in 2:nd edition? er.. I won´t comment that..

And as with bg series. You can´t get the tabletop gaming feel into any roleplaying game going i real time. Stop sulking guys, the game looks awesome! Try it!

[Suunman]

Hello all

I’ve played dnd in all its forms except 3E; my gamming group is in another state so I’m playing a few CRPG for fun.

I do have the books and have read through the new rule set.

What I see, is DnD becoming more like Rolemaster, in some respects. In Rolemaster (one of the most complicated Rpg’s ever – especially the combat) it’s possible for anyone to do anything. You just have to spend the points the right way and maybe make yourself really weak and vulnerable in other areas. (at least till you get a few levels)

My first Rolemaster Character was an archmage (class not level) and by the time he was 15th level he zipped around in full plate armour and wielded a long bow. His spells would only mess up due to armour about 03% of the time.(he’s learnt the skill of casting in plate armour)

I loved the freedom the system gave me to roleplay a character that wasn’t stuck with a dagger, a staff, and a robe -- just because he chose to be a wizard.

It looks, like I say I haven’t played 3E, like 3E gives the player more scope in some ways – which I like. But I agree the different races seem more cosmetic roleplaying options than real aspects of the game.

On the other hand I could never understand WHY so many restrictions were placed on characters in dnd -- I mean an elf lives so much longer than a human, but could not be as powerful?

They couldn’t learn as much magic – I thought elves were inherently magical creatures.

And yes I’ve heard all the stock answers for the reasons behind those limitations. But as far as I can tell it was all for game balance – be human and go as far as the rules allowed in ONE class ( two if you dual classed) - - or be non-human and go a little way in 2-3 classes.

The new system seems to make more sense. The rules are easier to follow for someone who hasn’t already mastered the thac0 system.

And at the very least, WOTC got us all to go out and buy THEIR book of rules -- rather than stick with the books we have already payed for - which would have put nothing in their coffers after all.

[Morgan_Corbesant]

well, i see WOTC messing up D&D just like they did magic. it was an awesome game at first, but now they just added so much, and took so much away, that it has lost its fun factor for me. i sold my $2000 dollars in magic cards and dont miss them now. i see them doing the same thing to D&D. the first few editions rocked, but once you change too much of it, its not the same damn game any more. now its a whole new system, whole different types of characters, different stats for everything.......its COMPLETELY different. given, the prestige classes are awesome ideas, but everything else just looks like utter CRAP!! dont get me wrong, im not saying it IS, im saying it LOOKS that way. ive not played it yet, i have a few of the books for it, and i plan to play NWN, but im not expecting too much out of it.

[Morgan_Corbesant]

i also agree with the bladesinger comments. that is by far my favorite class to play. mine is a 10/11 level, and weilds a moonblade with four runes, and has elvenchainmail+3! to lose all of that, and to lose out on levels, just stinks to hell and back. oh-well, i guess ill just have to find a prestige class that can come close to a bladesinger........

[fallenangeloz]

Oh, how old do I feel! LOL

The original poster commented on wanting his "beloved edition back". Well, I was playing in first edition, then moved to second edition. People were using the same 'arguments' then against that move and how it would spell the end [img]smile.gif[/img]

It didn't and the game got better. Now we have another move. Although not playing the pen and paper version every Friday night as I used to, I did buy the third edition PHB to keep my hand in. I think it looks great. Yes, they've made a lot of changes, but I think they're valid and well thought out.

Games change, and they adapt. Perhaps the instant everything mindframe that many have now is reflected in the changes. The original poster was saying that he didn't feel it was as complex as 2nd edition. Does it need to be complex to be enjoyed? I don't think so.

Anyway, let's see how it plays before any judgements are made. Personally, I'm really looking forward to it. I've already emailed a couple of mates that I used to game with and am getting them keyed up to play online with one of us being the DM - get a few of the group back together. I think they're wives are going to kill me though LOL.

Fallen Angel

[fallenangeloz]

Toriuxic (?) said:

"Elves do not have the same point of view, as they live a much longer time. They won't lay down their lives quick enough to be a successful paladin."

You're looking at that from a very *human* Paladin mindset. Of course they're not going to have the same view as a Human Paladin. That's mainly because they will be an Elven Paladin. They can believe in a cause just as any other Paladin. The way they think about it, they way they resolve it and the issues that come to them because of it - thats what will give them their roleplaying.

Both are Paladins. What you bring to the role, and how you get into the character and what they would be thinking will distinguish them. Can you imagine a Human Paladin telling a group of friends in the pub your above statement? I can. How would an Elven Paladin respond? Thats where the challenge lies. Getting into *new* roles, and bringing that to the game so that it evolves.

Fallen Angel
(who has *never* understood racial level limits, or class differences)

[toriuxik]

Its actually supposed to be Tor'Iuxik, but I'm a bonehead and put the name in the wrong field.... lol

Elves are simply not of the same mindset for this... heck they have a min intelligence that is above the average paladin. jk Regardless. Paladins do not think their actions through. They see wrong, they try to smash it. Actually can be worse than barbarians in this way... lol. This is because they can't abide by using trickery to win. They can't even use LOGIC other than basic physics (I swing bigger sword and get bigger muscles and do more damage... Just because I'm slower and have no defences because of this I'm gonna use this sword. My god will protect me! HAHAHAHAAHAAHAAaaa... Ack! Blood... Lose... Killing... Whups... Lay... On... *dies*). This is in part because humans have a shorter lifespan than elves. An elf is throwing away centuries, a human paladin MAYBE decades (they'd be dead young anyway).

This is also why all paladins basicly die young. Elves would hardly be past adolecsence when they die. Heck, HUMANS are hardly past adolesence... Ah well. Elves that hang around humans constantly and get the same 'zest for life' might toss their life down. Others, as a general rule, won't.

[WOLFGIR]

toriuxik , perhaps you should read the description of elves once more..
About elves, their favoured class is wizard. Most elves will tend to follow the general alignment. Chaotic Good. So are there no nutral and evil elves?
There are both in games, books and in some peoples minds. You CAN play a elven Paladin, though that choice is up to the DM of the game. Is there a cause that suffice to make a Paladin that follows Corellian Lanthor?? Is their you CAN play an elven Paladin if you like.
The game is made for YOU to have fun in, hence fewer restrictions so YOU as a gamer can make most of your fantasy.
If you don´t like the RULES CHANGE IT! You have the power

And the Bladesinger class is described in the Tome of Blood book as a prestige class. So go find it.

And with the new rules, there are also the rules how to make YOUR OWN prestige classes, conversions from older variants.
And yes I can understand you don´t wnat to loose your Bladesinger from 2:nd edition and you don´t want to start with a fresh character. Then don´t play the game.

But most important. There won´t be any prestige classes in NWN to begin with as far as I have heard.

So, do you find it to be impossible to play a half-orc Paladin, I´m sorry your imagination won´t allow you cause it could be really fun to roleplay a character that fights with inner strengths against general beliefs, his own disadvantages peoples thougts, the scorn from the orcs.

By the way.. Did you know that Swedes can´t be christian because we believed in Asar a coupe of hundred years ago! (Ok, a mean joke guys, but remember that ultimately, Dungeons and dragons are core rule, designed to take place where you and your group wants to play. In certain fantasy worlds there are no elves or halflings..)

[Azred]

From everything I've seen and heard about 3rd edition rules, this game sounds like they are trying to be GURPS, which is probably the best gaming system I have ever seen. You don't have "classes" because any race can learn any skill or have any combination of advantages, disadvantages, abilities, etc. If you want a one-eyed half-orc who practices Wing Chun, studies medieval French literature, pilots a personal starship, and has limited telepathic abilites then you can. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] In fact, GURPS is the only gaming system you'll ever need again. Long live Steve Jackson! Fnord!

[ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Azred ]