Ohio Recount!?

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Kaelas: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...mandments_robe

I don't even care if he has a legal right to walk around like that or not, but it's times like these that the American judicial system looks more like a circus than it should.

[Cerek]

Originally posted by Kaelas: Interesting indeed. Well, as long as religious beliefs and their interpretations are not placed above the laws of a constitution in judicial processes I shall be content. [img]smile.gif[/img] I discovered this site about the topic: http://theocracywatch.org/index.html

That was an interesting site. I found it to be a bit "over the top" with it's doomsday tone and predictions. It is taking some of the most extreme snippets by folks like Pat Robertson and claiming this is a view shared by all Christians. That simply isn't the case.

Originally posted by Kaelas: And this small tidbit: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...mandments_robe Are the "facts" listed in those sites valid or not? I could not say. And I'm not one to judge. It makes for an interesting read, however.

I have to agree that this is also "over the top" and shows poor judgement on the part of the judge. I assume he is wearing the robe as his own personal protest to the wide-scale demand for the complete removal of the 10 Commandments from courtrooms across the nation.

While I seriously doubt it will affect how he or the jurors judge the defendent on the DUI charge, he has given the defendent's attorney something to focus attention on besides the illegal actions of his client. The attorney made it clear that he was going to shift the focus on his defense away from his client's actions to that of the judge's. Which is absolutely ludicrous - but the judge did open the door for that objection by wearing the robe.

You're right about one thing, Grojlach, our judicial system does resemble a circus at times. And there are plenty of clowns on BOTH sides of the room and - apparantly - on both sides of the bench as well.

Originally posted by Kaelas: If memory serves me right that was one of the principles of the era of Enlightenment following the French Revolution and has been one of the mainstays of the democratic state ever since (division of state and church). Interesting stuff! Edit: Uh, I really should make a habit of previewing my posts before actually posting them... yeah, I should do that.

Since you brought up this issue of the French Principles of Enlightenment I thought I would direct you to this Story On the Subject. I am also sending a PM to ya on this issue of seperation of powers.


[ 12-27-2004, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Grojlach]

In other news, all this voter fraud mumbo jumbo might finally be on the verge of becoming mainstream news (buckle up for some biased reporting, though if the statements in the first paragraphs are true (that Kerry has stated through his lawyer that the validity of Bush's reelection is no longer a given), we'll hear more about it soon enough):

http://www.breakfornews.com/articles...oUnconcede.htm
Coming Up For Air
Kerry Preparing Grounds to Unconcede
Election Challenge likely on Jan 6th

BreakForNews.com, 24th Dec, 2004 23:00ET
by Fintan Dunne, Editor EXCLUSIVE

If you haven't been following John Kerry closely, get ready to hear of surprising developments. The vote-defrauded, potential president-in-waiting has just indicated through his lawyer that the validity of George Bush's reelection is no longer a given.

On 23 December, 2004 Kerry's lawyer confirmed to MSNBC's 'Countdown' that John Kerry will be seeking (likely on Monday 27 Dec.) to expedite court proceedings and secure evidence in an ongoing recount suit by the Green and Libertarian parties. That might sound like just another "count every vote" exercise by the Kerry campaign, were it not for two important details.

Kerry's court filing will conjoin him to existing allegations that Triad GSI, a Republican-linked supplier of voting machines to around half of Ohio counties --"orchestrated" a covert campaign to thwart a legitimate recount in Ohio. If the allegation proves well founded, it could invalidate the Ohio recount and eventually even hand the presidency to John Kerry.
Ohio
Kerry compared to Gore

Electronic voting +4.52%
Non-Triad punch cards +2.43%
Optic scans +0.05%
Triad punch cards -0.95%

Triad alone cost Kerry
102,000 votes. more

Which probably explains the second critical detail: a quiet, on the record bombshell statement to 'Countdown' by Daniel Hoffheimer, the Cincinnati lawyer representing the Kerry campaign in Ohio.

Previously, the Kerry Campaign's intent in Ohio seemed to be merely an exercise of American civic spiritedness.

Two weeks ago, when Kerry wrote to Ohio's 88 county boards of election asking to visually inspect some ballots, Donald McTigue, the lawyer handling the recount for the Kerry campaign said: "We're trying to increase the transparency of the election process."

In early December, when the Kerry Campaign joined a suit by Green and Libertarian party candidates seeking a recount in Delaware County, Daniel Hoffheimer said Kerry wasn't disputing President Bush's victory in Ohio. The aim was to make sure any recount was "done accurately and completely," Hoffheimer said.

Now MSNBC 'Countdown' reports the same Hoffheimer, in comments on their imminent filing in the Ohio recount, concluding their call for a scrupulous recount with this caveat:

"...Only then can the integrity of the entire electoral process and the election of Bush/Cheney warrant the public trust."

That's the first time the Kerry Campaign has impugned the legitimacy of Bush's reelection.


RECOUNT CHEAT SHEETS

It's a signal move, likely driven by emerging evidence of suspicious activity by representatives of Triad GSI during the recount in Ohio. Evidence which has led a senior Democrat, ranking House Judiciary Cmtee. member, John Conyers Jr. to accuse Brett A. Rapp, the boss of Triad GSI of orchestrating a criminal conspiracy to pervert the outcome of the Ohio recount.

The allegations first surfaced before an extraordinary Ohio hearing convened by Conyers on behalf of Democratic Minority members of the House Judiciary Committee. An affidavit filed by Sherole Eaton, Hocking County deputy director of elections, stated that a Triad representative had told her "how to post a 'cheat sheet' on the wall so the ...count would come out perfect and we wouldn't have to do a full hand recount of the county."

That account has been corroborated by other officials and by extracts from a video documentary in which a Triad technician admits that the company was in possession of computer "backup" copies of the official election data.


SIGNAL, THEN MANEUVER

If the recount was fraudulent, does that have implications for the validity of the first count in Ohio? The Kerry campaign knows full well that it does. That's why their latest statement questions the "integrity" of the "entire" electoral process. And the election of Bush/Cheney.

For Kerry, a fraudulent recount in Ohio could be an open door into to the Oval Office. Already, John Conyers is confident that a few U.S. Senators will join House members on January 6 to question the November 2 election. On Thursday, the Chicago Tribune reported that in a conference call with journalists Jesse Jackson said that Kerry had conceded the presidential election "much too soon. Before all the facts were in."

But don't expect Kerry to quickly rush to a microphone in order to unconcede. He doesn't have to. His unconcession will take effect by default.

If the Ohio recount is shown fraudulent, the domino effect could carry him through that door without claiming victory or even unconceding.

Simply by allowing Bush's claim on the Office of President to fall --piece by fraudulent piece. Nudging the dominoes to topple in the right way.

Thus leaving Kerry, poised to step into office over the Bush debris.

[ 12-28-2004, 03:35 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[SilentThief]

Originally posted by Kaelas: "Did you get that America ? The Secretary of State of Ohio, who has an obvious conflict of interest by being the State Chair for the reelection of George W. Bush, has now violated the law to stop a recount that could prove that Bush actually lost Ohio, and thus the entire presidential election. Where in the hell is the media? Where is the outrage? Why is this not the TOP story on every network? Why is this not the HEADLINE in every paper? Again, even if you think the fraud allegations will not amount to overturning the election, isn’t the potential of real voter fraud in this country worth reporting? When a man who is so obviously compromised and ethically bankrupt such as Blackwell actually VIOLATES THE LAW, isn’t that considered news? Is it not even more relevant when you consider the ONLY possible reason for Blackwell to illegally stop the recount is that he is afraid of the results?" If anyone could shed some more light on what's going on over there, it would be much appreciated. Did that really NOT make it into the media?

Not only does the media not care, most ppl here are just kinda used to the idea that someone who didn't actually win in 2000 is the president. We als figured he wouldn't win again, but get 4 more years still. we accept this taking away of our rights becuz ppl shout us down for questioning anything. we figure next election we'll have the top issues on the election will be NOT the war in Iraq NOT healthcare NOT The economy BUT instead how to further enslave the masses and when do they actually get to put computer chips in our hands and monitor everything we do or say or think.

And I raise a toast to 4 more years in america, land of the free
SilentThief

There is a reason no reputable mainstream news source is carrying this issue

ST, no honestly informed people actually believe that Bush Didn't win the 2000 election. Anyone educated on the subject of American Electoral matters knows he won. Electoral College...love it...or campaign for it to be reformed. [img]smile.gif[/img]


[ 12-28-2004, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]