Sorcerer, or mage?

[Zuvio]

Sorcerer is THE number one spellcaster. At the end of ToB I could cast at least 8 spells for most spell levels and thats a lot. Besides, Sorcerers can use scrolls so carry some of those just in case you see?

[drewal]

All of the spell protections in the world would not protect your sorcerer from

Chain contingency-web-web-web
Incendiary Cloud
Spell Trigger-web-web-web

Not only will the cloud damage you (even with the cloak of cheese on), it will disrupt your spellcasting even if you save.

Of course a lot depends on who gets the drop on who, but if you miss a save on the first set of webs - you're toast.

The mage, with the Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power casts incendiary cloud with a casting time of 2.

Then comes a spell trigger loaded full of more webs.

If you get caught in any of them, then...

Here comes another incendiary cloud.

Then another web.

And so on.

I still promise to try out a sorcerer now though, to get a first hand perspective.

[Alson]

Originally posted by drewal: All of the spell protections in the world would not protect your sorcerer from Chain contingency-web-web-web Incendiary Cloud Spell Trigger-web-web-web Not only will the cloud damage you (even with the cloak of cheese on), it will disrupt your spellcasting even if you save.

Actually, Spell Immunity : Evocation will make the Sorcerer immune to both.

The mage, with the Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power casts incendiary cloud with a casting time of 2.

The Sorcerer, with the Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power casts Spell Immunity : Evocation with a casting time of 0. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Then comes a spell trigger loaded full of more webs.

Odin Magnus - Spell Ineffective

If you get caught in any of them, then...

Odin Magnus - Spell Ineffective

Here comes another incendiary cloud.

Odin Magnus - Spell Ineffe...
Well, you get my drift.

[Bardan the Slayer]

In BG2, because of the HUGE focus on combat, the sorcerer rules. He is simply the king, the powerhouse, the class destined to make the game too easy.

If we were discussing PnP, however, it would be alot closer. In the PnP world, lots of varied situations come up, making a wide spell selection vital. Wizards can do a bit of preparation, and be perfectly set to counter *any* situation that they have a bit of time to get ready for. Sorcerers still rule in sudden or prolongued combat, though.

Now, bearing in mind that in BG2, about all there is is prolongued and sudden combat, the sorcerer rules. Maybe once or twice he might wisdh he had protection form acid/poison/whatever, but hey - that's what scrolls are for [img]smile.gif[/img]

In PnP, it very much depends on your playing style and the campaign you're in.

In BG2, the Sorc rules, without a shadow of a doubt.

[drewal]

Alson and Bardan the issue depends on the situation on the comp or PnP. In the situation I described above, if the two spellcasters were to happen upon each other, the mage would have the advantage - at least on the comp.

On the comp - you have no idea what's coming out of my chain contingency - or what I'm casting first - thus Odin would have no idea to cast spell immunity - evocation.

In PnP, however, I believe a succesfull spell knowledge check would allow the sorcerer to get of his spell immunity invocation before the incendiary cloud - but still not before the first set of webs.

[Sythe]

(read Dundee's post and lies there twithcing) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO dang no goody nabbit of a husky on a blow drying ontop of mount corn cob!!! Ripped into shreds once again into a lotta itsy bitsy pieces.........but I will be back tommrow or later today with a argument to counter you dundee MARK MY WORDS!!!!!!!!................(I hope)

[Sythe]

Okay Dundee I believe you are right and wrong in some ways. Finnaly I realize that a sorceror is stronger than your everyday mage. I admit it its true sorry for all those (well only 1) that supported me. But I gotta hand it to Dundee you are right in this one. A sorceror is stronger than the mage but.....ONLYat very high levels. Sorceror are the best and the ultimate class when they are at their peak of their true power. Mages on the other hand come close to that but not enough. And sorcerors are stronger than mages at the lowly level one. Now Dundee and all those that follow him don't think I like sorcerors better than sorceros now oooh no. You see mages can attain power much quicker than mages imagine this. You a solo mage one day you found a chest full of scrolss read em get a whole jumble of expierence points get super strong and can wipe out any low level sorceror with ease. Mages can level up get more powerful faster than sorcerors can. This is one major disadvantage to the sorcerors. While the sorceros are stuck going though the sloow and steady way. Now I read in a few places that some mages have a grudge against sorcerors and don't like em and kill em. Must be why sorcerors are not at all so common huh. Few sorcerors get very powerful. If a 40th level Sorceror against a 40th level mage. The battle would be sweet a titanic battle. The mage would memorize spell trigger and so would the sorceror. The mage having a huge advantage of knowing more spells and more tequniques than a sorceror chooses a wider variety of spells than your everyday sorceror has. The sorceror would like the mage would choose the best spells, defensive and offensive. But a sorceror would be able to like put in the spell trigger 2 fireballs but hopefully the mage has the globe of invulnberilaaaaaaatay. Well in both sides its a hard to see who would when. I just don't know hey Dundee if you have multiplayer play against someone who has the same level as your sorceror. Play against a mage and tell me how it turns out eh.But I think the sorceror has a very little higher of a chance of winning than the mage. Like 50.01 perecent chance.

So all I am saying is neither the sorceror or the mage is better than one another. I might have more to say stayyyy tuned 4 more

[Dundee Slaytern]

Just something to think about... my Sorcerer can cast Time Stop in Chapter 3... can your Mage do so? Think carefully... ... [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

If you want to talk about low-level... at level one, a Sorcerer can blasts a level one spell 3 times a day... a Mage can only cast once... or twice if he is a Specialist.

While the Mage has to scurry all over Amn to get the best scrolls, a Sorcerer merely has to clap his hands when he/she levels up and say, "Hey! I think I want Mordenkainen's Sword now."

In BG2, a Sorcerer attains power at the following levels,

8: Stoneskin
11: Web + Spawn Spider
12: Death Spell
14: Project Image
15: Skeleton Warrior
18: Time Stop + Improved Alacrity

A Mage depends on his/her scrolls, a Sorcerer merely has to level up.

[ 01-04-2003, 01:37 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Butterfingers]

Ok, been reading, think I will finally toss in my two cents.

In a CRPG, yes, the sorcerer is king. No real consequences for his or her own power.

In PnP on the other hand, mages have the upper hand.

Sorcerers tend to have things trying to hunt them down when they become powerful enough to notice, much like the Bhaalspawns in BG, and Jon wanting to steal your soul. Sorcerers tend to become targets of powerful entities, agencies, and some times even Gods who feel their power might become threatened. Of course, Mages get this too, but, not to the degree that a Sorcerer would. Sorcerers tend to become to powerful for their own good, usually end up hunted and chased, seldom getting a moments rest.

Also, in some campaigns, Sorcerers do not get to pick their spells. The DM does, spell influence comes from the bloodline of the Sorcerer. If say, the Sorcerer was the by product of a succubus and a human, a willing pairing, said Sorcerer would most likely get a vast majority of his spells from the Enchantment school. Of course, this can have advantages as well as drawbacks, as say, a Sorcerer was the offspring of a powerful planar being of some sort, lets say, a lightning based being, then said Sorcerer could end up getting spells from the lightning sphere of influence, spells that nobody else could cast. Special spells of course, created by a wise DM. If by odd chance, say, Sorcerer was a child of somebody like Talos, then, his or her spell picks would be storm based, like Ice Storm, Cone of Cold, Lightning Bolt, and possibly even clerical spells like Firestorm or Call Lightning.

Now if only they could apply something to this effect in a CRPG, we could see the REAL power of a Sorcerer. We could also see his or her weakness.

[Imrahil]

I realize that this discussion is focused primarily on soloing & on head-to-head fights, but I have to point out that, if you're using a party, each Mage can get your party (or himself for that matter, if soloing) around +750,000 XP by scribing every scroll found in the game. I'll admit to returning to cast off Mages with a full Scroll Case ("hey, Nalia, feel like scribing some scrolls?") just to re-enlist them, have them write some magic, then dump them again. So, factor in the increased XP for the Mage at the same point in the game... [img]smile.gif[/img]

- Imrahil