Please tell me things get better... [Ch. 1&2 spoilers]

Pirengle · 07-13-2003, 09:40 PM

After reading Dundee's synopsis of the plot, I decided to go out and get Icewind Dale. Got $20 of my paycheck, went out to at least eight different retailers, and finally found the IWD/HoW double pack. (PDF manuals are icky!) I install, and prepare to play the game once again.

My party consists of a dwarven fighter planning for grandmastery in axes, a second dwarven fighter planning for grandmastery in great swords or long swords, whichever seems better, a dwarven fighter/cleric specializing in flails and warhammers, a gnomish cleric/mage with a thing for a sling

, a halfling fighter/thief with a longbow specialization and small weapon proficiencies, and a half-elven ranger with a composite longbow and great swords.

I'm slogging through Dragon's Eye, got to the level with that annoying little girl, and getting sick and tired of fighting a crapload of enemies. Just fought a battle with Yuan-Ti, and I know my party was outnumbered 3 to 1, at least. This has been my battle plan ever since I entered the Dragon's Eye: wander around, fight a crapload of enemies that are just difficult enough so my party won't walk through without a scratch or half my party needs raising after the fight, get piddly treasure (or no treasure at all), rest until healed, repeat the process. I have this sickening feeling that as soon as I get to the major boss battle of this place, I'm going to be outnumbered 5 to 1, I still won't find the stupid Gem, and Arundel's going to send me on ANOTHER wild goose chase just to find it. Great.

Do things get any better? Or is this pretty much how the entire game works?

perlninja · 07-14-2003, 03:50 AM

Don't worry, you will be outnumbered 5:1 but the boss in Dragon's Eye yields the Heartstone. Are you playing HoW all the way through or classic IWD? I've beaten IWD and am slowly edging through HoW, which has 1)more monsters that 2)do double damage. Very slow and frustrating, but also challenging and fun. The bad thing about HoW so far is that the gold/treasure totally blows for the effort you invest in killing the baddies. I'm not really sure what you mean by things getting "better", I mean the theme here is monster-packed dungeon exploration in a sequential plotline, so that doesn't change. But the plot gets more twisted and the scenery more beautiful as you go (particularly in and around Dorn's Deep).

Stratos · 07-14-2003, 08:21 AM

IWD is dungeon crawling and hackin' and slashin' through your enemies at it's bestbut not much space for actual role-playing. It's a good game but most people won't play through it more than once as it has little replay value.

Pirengle · 07-14-2003, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by perlninja:
I'm not really sure what you mean by things getting "better", I mean the theme here is monster-packed dungeon exploration in a sequential plotline, so that doesn't change. But the plot gets more twisted and the scenery more beautiful as you go (particularly in and around Dorn's Deep).

I agree; the visuals so far are astounding. The dungeon crawl is exhaustive. I wouldn't mind being outnumbered, if it meant I got more than a couple gold pieces and unusuable items. (The mage dagger would have been lovely if not for my mage/cleric. [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

perlninja · 07-14-2003, 02:42 PM

"it has little replay value"

I disagree. Party class combinations, number of members in the party, and the addition of the expansion (lots of items etc.) confer a decent measure of replayability imho.

NobleNick · 07-14-2003, 03:34 PM

Pirengle,
Tough battles and tactical variety: That is what IWD/HoW is about. If you've made it almost all the way through Dragon's Eye and you are not enjoying yourself immensely, then one of the following things is probably true:

1.) IWD is not for you. I keep hearing folks whining about not enough treasure to reward them for their efforts. The occasional great items become more common in the later chapters; but that is beside the point. The biggest reward for beating the snot out of the enemy is... BEATING THE SNOT OUT OF THE ENEMY!!

2.) It may be that the game is too challenging for you to be fun. Nothing to be ashamed of: It was hard enough to be boring for me, so I did some "soft cheating," like running my guys solo through some of the quest rewards to gain more expo and level faster. Actually, although your party is not to my tastes (Three meelee types + bard are much more lethal than 4 meelee-types: Lose one and get a bard), I see no reason why you should be hurting unless you are not doing the quests.

Oh, and I would heartily disagree with the original "replay value" post: IF you like the game play to begin with (i.e., you like exercising battle tactics), the replay is excellent. I've started two more new games before even finishing the first! And shuffling (exporting) characters back and forth between games is a riot!

What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party on!!

Pirengle · 07-14-2003, 09:41 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NobleNick:
Tough battles and tactical variety: That is what IWD/HoW is about.

I remember my original quibbling about BG2 about magic. BG2 taught me how to use magic. This game is teaching me how to fight.

I'm no stranger to this kind of stuff--I grew up playing Doom and the original Starsiege with my father. [img]smile.gif[/img] I guess it's the skald in me that cries out for NPC interaction and side quests. (And where did the Auto-Pause: Enemy Sighted option go?)

The more I play, the more I wish I could've done things differently. I'm hurting without the Bard Song, and lack of a full cleric.

I'm in the Severed Hand right now, and doing the astrolabe quest to try and fill that empty part in my soul.

perlninja · 07-15-2003, 02:21 PM

"I'm hurting without the Bard Song, and lack of a full cleric"

It's funny, I've almost made it through BG2:SoA and have made it through IWD and never have I used a bard, other than a brief stint with Haer D'alis. As for lacking a full cleric in IWD...it is true that you do need some sort of clerical presence, realistically, but a nice way around it is to have a paladin (turn undead, crushing weapon mastery) and a druid (curative spells, plus some awesome magic for undead like flameblade, sunscorch, etc.). That's what I'm using right now and so far it is working well.

NobleNick · 07-16-2003, 10:41 AM

Pirengle,

You could always start a new parallel game, create a bard to lead the party, and then import a few of your guys that need more expo into the new game to help the bard adventure up to the point in the game that your original party is now. Then import the bard and and her now-buff helpers back into the original game.

I understand your need for role play. Unfortunately, I don't share it. I would be happy as a pig in slop to just hack and slash within a not-too-glaringly-flawed storyline. I just **LOVED** the Myth series games --> A physics based game with realistic terrain and weather effects on gameplay, and tactical challenge after tactical challenge after tactical challenge. Yeah, it was nice to have a storyline, and the cutscenes were great; but, you know, I don't remember the Myth storyline. However, I can remember, in exquisite detail, many of the battles I fought. I think the BG series would be painful for me. Oh well, diff'rent strokes....

perlninja, For me --> a party complimented with a bard and/or druid, plus at least one more full magic user is like a Porsche, whereas one without is like a VW bug: both will get you where you are going; but the trip is a lot more exciting, enjoyable and satisfying in the former.

What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party on!!

pritchke · 07-16-2003, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NobleNick:

1.) IWD is not for you. I keep hearing folks whining about not enough treasure to reward them for their efforts. The occasional great items become more common in the later chapters; but that is beside the point. The biggest reward for beating the snot out of the enemy is... BEATING THE SNOT OUT OF THE ENEMY!!

I think the biggest reward is surviving each battle. It is the North Land which means low population, less items lost by people, it is realistic that you are not going to find many items in the Dale.

Quote:

Originally posted by NobleNick:

Oh, and I would heartily disagree with the original "replay value" post: IF you like the game play to begin with (i.e., you like exercising battle tactics), the replay is excellent. I've started two more new games before even finishing the first! And shuffling (exporting) characters back and forth between games is a riot!

I agree totally. NobleNick your one of the few people I know who enjoys this game more than me. I have not played in a few months but I will have to play again to finish soloing through HoW, and TotLM.

07-13-2003, 09:40 PM	#1
Pirengle Symbol of Cyric Join Date: April 20, 2003 Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA Age: 41 Posts: 1,101	After reading Dundee's synopsis of the plot, I decided to go out and get Icewind Dale. Got $20 of my paycheck, went out to at least eight different retailers, and finally found the IWD/HoW double pack. (PDF manuals are icky!) I install, and prepare to play the game once again. My party consists of a dwarven fighter planning for grandmastery in axes, a second dwarven fighter planning for grandmastery in great swords or long swords, whichever seems better, a dwarven fighter/cleric specializing in flails and warhammers, a gnomish cleric/mage with a thing for a sling , a halfling fighter/thief with a longbow specialization and small weapon proficiencies, and a half-elven ranger with a composite longbow and great swords. I'm slogging through Dragon's Eye, got to the level with that annoying little girl, and getting sick and tired of fighting a crapload of enemies. Just fought a battle with Yuan-Ti, and I know my party was outnumbered 3 to 1, at least. This has been my battle plan ever since I entered the Dragon's Eye: wander around, fight a crapload of enemies that are just difficult enough so my party won't walk through without a scratch or half my party needs raising after the fight, get piddly treasure (or no treasure at all), rest until healed, repeat the process. I have this sickening feeling that as soon as I get to the major boss battle of this place, I'm going to be outnumbered 5 to 1, I still won't find the stupid Gem, and Arundel's going to send me on ANOTHER wild goose chase just to find it. Great. Do things get any better? Or is this pretty much how the entire game works? __________________ [img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/pirengle/quintesson.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

07-14-2003, 08:21 AM	#3
Stratos Vampire Join Date: January 29, 2003 Location: Sweden Age: 43 Posts: 3,888	IWD is dungeon crawling and hackin' and slashin' through your enemies at it's bestbut not much space for actual role-playing. It's a good game but most people won't play through it more than once as it has little replay value. __________________ Nothing is impossible, it's just a matter of probability.

07-14-2003, 09:41 PM	#7
Pirengle Symbol of Cyric Join Date: April 20, 2003 Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA Age: 41 Posts: 1,101	[QUOTE]Originally posted by NobleNick: Tough battles and tactical variety: That is what IWD/HoW is about. I remember my original quibbling about BG2 about magic. BG2 taught me how to use magic. This game is teaching me how to fight. I'm no stranger to this kind of stuff--I grew up playing Doom and the original Starsiege with my father. [img]smile.gif[/img] I guess it's the skald in me that cries out for NPC interaction and side quests. (And where did the Auto-Pause: Enemy Sighted option go?) The more I play, the more I wish I could've done things differently. I'm hurting without the Bard Song, and lack of a full cleric. I'm in the Severed Hand right now, and doing the astrolabe quest to try and fill that empty part in my soul. __________________ [img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/pirengle/quintesson.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

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07-14-2003, 03:50 AM	#2
perlninja Dungeon Master Join Date: June 1, 2003 Location: Victoria BC, Canada Age: 44 Posts: 65	Don't worry, you will be outnumbered 5:1 but the boss in Dragon's Eye yields the Heartstone. Are you playing HoW all the way through or classic IWD? I've beaten IWD and am slowly edging through HoW, which has 1)more monsters that 2)do double damage. Very slow and frustrating, but also challenging and fun. The bad thing about HoW so far is that the gold/treasure totally blows for the effort you invest in killing the baddies. I'm not really sure what you mean by things getting "better", I mean the theme here is monster-packed dungeon exploration in a sequential plotline, so that doesn't change. But the plot gets more twisted and the scenery more beautiful as you go (particularly in and around Dorn's Deep).

07-14-2003, 02:42 PM	#5
perlninja Dungeon Master Join Date: June 1, 2003 Location: Victoria BC, Canada Age: 44 Posts: 65	"it has little replay value" I disagree. Party class combinations, number of members in the party, and the addition of the expansion (lots of items etc.) confer a decent measure of replayability imho.

07-14-2003, 03:34 PM	#6
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 63 Posts: 1,045	Pirengle, Tough battles and tactical variety: That is what IWD/HoW is about. If you've made it almost all the way through Dragon's Eye and you are not enjoying yourself immensely, then one of the following things is probably true: 1.) IWD is not for you. I keep hearing folks whining about not enough treasure to reward them for their efforts. The occasional great items become more common in the later chapters; but that is beside the point. The biggest reward for beating the snot out of the enemy is... BEATING THE SNOT OUT OF THE ENEMY!! 2.) It may be that the game is too challenging for you to be fun. Nothing to be ashamed of: It was hard enough to be boring for me, so I did some "soft cheating," like running my guys solo through some of the quest rewards to gain more expo and level faster. Actually, although your party is not to my tastes (Three meelee types + bard are much more lethal than 4 meelee-types: Lose one and get a bard), I see no reason why you should be hurting unless you are not doing the quests. Oh, and I would heartily disagree with the original "replay value" post: IF you like the game play to begin with (i.e., you like exercising battle tactics), the replay is excellent. I've started two more new games before even finishing the first! And shuffling (exporting) characters back and forth between games is a riot! What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party on!!

07-15-2003, 02:21 PM	#8
perlninja Dungeon Master Join Date: June 1, 2003 Location: Victoria BC, Canada Age: 44 Posts: 65	"I'm hurting without the Bard Song, and lack of a full cleric" It's funny, I've almost made it through BG2:SoA and have made it through IWD and never have I used a bard, other than a brief stint with Haer D'alis. As for lacking a full cleric in IWD...it is true that you do need some sort of clerical presence, realistically, but a nice way around it is to have a paladin (turn undead, crushing weapon mastery) and a druid (curative spells, plus some awesome magic for undead like flameblade, sunscorch, etc.). That's what I'm using right now and so far it is working well.

07-16-2003, 10:41 AM	#9
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 63 Posts: 1,045	Pirengle, You could always start a new parallel game, create a bard to lead the party, and then import a few of your guys that need more expo into the new game to help the bard adventure up to the point in the game that your original party is now. Then import the bard and and her now-buff helpers back into the original game. I understand your need for role play. Unfortunately, I don't share it. I would be happy as a pig in slop to just hack and slash within a not-too-glaringly-flawed storyline. I just LOVED the Myth series games --> A physics based game with realistic terrain and weather effects on gameplay, and tactical challenge after tactical challenge after tactical challenge. Yeah, it was nice to have a storyline, and the cutscenes were great; but, you know, I don't remember the Myth storyline. However, I can remember, in exquisite detail, many of the battles I fought. I think the BG series would be painful for me. Oh well, diff'rent strokes.... perlninja, For me --> a party complimented with a bard and/or druid, plus at least one more full magic user is like a Porsche, whereas one without is like a VW bug: both will get you where you are going; but the trip is a lot more exciting, enjoyable and satisfying in the former. What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party on!!

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