Dragons and other stuff

Uruk'hai Gard · 03-23-2006, 05:29 AM

I am confused. I don't understand how you people can play this game in insane difficulty or solo etc. I play normal difficulty with a full group and the game is still extremely challenging for me. Im currently in 3 chapter. I have tried many times to kill shadow dragon and Firkraag but I have no chance against them. It seems impossible. As for advancing through the game I do ok..lots of resting and reloading occasionally, though. My group is

Cavalier (me) uses 2-hand sword (that talking sword)
Minsc uses 2-hand sword or mace of disruption
Jaheira uses +2 staff
Aerie uses +3 sling
Yoshimo uses short bow(very good, cant remember name) or short sword of backstabbing
Valygar uses his own katana or heartseeker

My usual tactic for fights is:
Me and Minsc go melee, Jaheira might summon fire elemental and then comes with me and Minsc, Aerie uses his spells and/or sling and Y and V uses their bows. Is this ok tactic for general? Then how about those dragons? They are not must to kill, right? But I think they might have some nice treasures. Any help would be appreciated. But no "cheats", I want to win honestly.

Andraste · 03-23-2006, 07:46 AM

I would say that your main problem is that you've only got half a mage. Mages spells are very powerful. Aerie is going to be useful later on, but as a dual class, she levels up at half rate.

Two suggestions.

1) go and get Imoen back to beef up your magical attack.

2) put this game aside and play a solo sorcerer for a while - don't plan on going through the whole game, but just long enough to learn what mage spells can do for you in a fight

Cam_H · 03-23-2006, 08:04 AM

Playing with a full group of six has its disadvantages ... with the 'general' exception of quest rewards, experience points from monster kills and other XPs (for instance, trap disarming) get spread evenly throughout the group, so each party member levels-up fairly slowly, and therefore you may have many weaker party members rather than a few strong ones.

Personally I have found groups of three tend to get the best of both worlds (fast levelling vs. broad skills) but I am not sure if this is your first run through, in which case erring on the side of a larger group may work out better for you.

As for soloing, it's often a case of knowing which fights to pick, and the suitable tactics to address each particular challenge. Some classes are less perilous to solo if you've played the game a few times (such as Sorcerers) whereas others are 'a touch more touchy' (such as single-class Wizard Slayers). Soloists tend to know what equipment to chase first, where it is, and how to easily get it.

It's hard to address your question regarding the dragons, as defining "cheats" is a pretty personal call. You can find no end of advice here (use the 'search' facility) or on other BG2 boards and web sites if you become utterly stuck on dragon slaying. As you say, you need not fight any dragons in this game, although you'll miss some good treasure, and in one instance, probably lose a lot.

If you're really struggling with 'Big Red' and want a less than 'totally' cheesy but still slightly smelly tactic ... (Ctrl-A or Click-and-drag-over-below for a moderately cryptic approach);

One approach may be to use a decoy party member and the other party members use potent missiles to bring down Big Red from afar.

The decoy must be courageous, ice cool, and stand - or even crawl - with resilience to severe physical attack. Physical attack protection? Do you smell a Rat? Rats the sewers? Which sewers, pray tell?!

Potent missiles ... perhaps an expert in arrows may have some bundles for procurement? Are you keen to walk to procure an expert's missiles? Steal me away then - drink up before down to business.

Confused?

Finally, just a quick thought or two on your tactic for fights - both Valygar and Yoshimo can backstab, so I would consider that as an option in most fights. Yoshimo is a Bounty Hunter and can lay traps including 'throwable' special traps (although he starts with a horrible 'Set Traps' stat and this needs boosting to be reliable {if not using the 'bottomless traps' cheese}). And Aerie is a female, we think ... [img]smile.gif[/img]

Morgeruat · 03-23-2006, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Andraste:
I would say that your main problem is that you've only got half a mage. Mages spells are very powerful. Aerie is going to be useful later on, but as a dual class, she levels up at half rate.

Two suggestions.

1) go and get Imoen back to beef up your magical attack.

2) put this game aside and play a solo sorcerer for a while - don't plan on going through the whole game, but just long enough to learn what mage spells can do for you in a fight

Bad idea, if only for the small spell selection of a sorceror, for learning a mage I'd suggest taking only a mage and learning what each spell does. I do agree though that another mage is necessary, I recommend Nalia, basically Imoen 1.2, lower thief abilities than the real thing, but she's decent enough as a mage and lacks Jan's primary weakness (he's an illusionist so can't cast evocation or necromancy), Jan is powerful, but is also multiclassed like Aerie (the two make a good pair though providing plenty of magical muscle).

The tactics sound fair, but don't forget that Valygar can backstab almost as well as Yoshimo, for the dragons I recommend setting a few traps before combat begins, and keep sending in the summons with your tanks (Minsc and primary character) stepping up to deal directly with the dragons. anything you can do to disrupt their spellcasting would help, insect swarm/plague/etc from Jaheira, remove magic/breach/etc from Aerie will also help you deal with casting dragons.

Uruk'hai Gard · 03-23-2006, 09:36 AM

Wow, thanks for the tips! Im not going to start again because I have already played many many hours to get even where I am right now(I play quite slowly and try to explore everything that I can find). Yes, I thought that I might need another mage (Aerie has been surprisingly useful). I met Edwin and thought to take him but then I realised that he was evil. I want to rescue Imoen and get her to my group (probably switching Yoshimo or Valygar for her, because I cant use them effectively other than shooting arrows and Yoshimo disarming things). That should help.

But I dont know how long it will take (and how tough monsters I will encounter) before that. So maybe I should reconsider that Nalia. Her quest is one that I havent tried (others are Korgans quest and that missing actor quest, and I havent gone place called Watchers Keep yet). But clearly my cavalier, Jaheira and Aerie have been most important to my group and Yoshimo because of the trap disarming. Maybe that backstabbing is also thing to consider. Whoah, there seems to be so much possibilities and different ways to play this game.

ps. Cam H, nice cryptic message, thanks [img]smile.gif[/img]

Dundee Slaytern · 03-23-2006, 09:42 AM

There are a myriad of ways to slay a Dragon, and even within the different dragons in the game, each has its' own strengths and weaknesses.

If you are fighting against a Dragon that breathes fire, then you will want to boost the Fire Resistance of all your party members. If it breathes ice, then you will want to boost the Cold Resistance of all your party members. And so on, and so forth.

Understand also that Dragons tend to have strong magical protections. You will need to either Dispel them, or Breach them. Without removing these spell protections, most of your physical attacks will be wasted.

Summons are also useful in distracting Dragons and taking the brunt of the attacks. A hit on your summon, is a hit not aimed at your party members.

Cam_H · 03-23-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Uruk'hai Gard:
I want to rescue Imoen and get her to my group (probably switching Yoshimo or Valygar for her, because I cant use them effectively other than shooting arrows and Yoshimo disarming things). That should help.

But I dont know how long it will take (and how tough monsters I will encounter) before that. So maybe I should reconsider that Nalia.

I was reluctant to make grandiose suggestions about your party composition, but many of the posts are pointing to the advantage of another mage. I am a fan of Nalia (a small fan club admittedly), but it would seem that you have progressed quite far in the game already, and I tend to either pick Nalia up early in the game or not at all. Morgeraut's suggestions are very good and I don't have issue with anything said, but your own initial suggestion above may also be a successful approach. I would say that trying to use Nalia as your main thief may be challenging for someone such as yourself who is still working your way through the game for the first time, as her skills are less than optimal. Yoshimo, Jan, and Imoen all have better thieving skills and they should be adequate to get you through.

Just for 'skill development', I would also save a copy of your game, and use it to practice backstabbing with either Yoshimo or Valygar. You simply put them in 'stealth mode' (or make them invisible), have them sneak behind an enemy, and strike for high (multiplied) damage. Note that there are some weapons that won't backstab, and there are a few enemies (incl. dragons) that are immune to backstabbing, but generally it works well, and is a technique that you may wish to pursue again at some point. Note also that the script 'Thief4' also constantly tries to put your party member into stealth mode if possible, which can be handy for relevant classes or kits.

If you're desperate for a good 'bowman', Mazzy has high proficiencies in short bow, and she may suit your style better than Valygar if you're planning to continue to use him principally as a bowman rather than a backstabber/scout. Just a thought.

Quote:

Originally posted by Uruk'hai Gard:
ps. Cam H, nice cryptic message, thanks [img]smile.gif[/img]

Actually I thought that it was likely to be far too vague, but if you 'get' it, then great. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Uruk'hai Gard · 03-23-2006, 02:03 PM

I tested backstabbing and it seemed very effective. Its good for certain situations. I tried to kill Firkraag once more but didn't manage so I decided to continue the main plot and rescue Imoen ASAP. I bought Staff of Rynn for Jaheira so now I have 3 good tanks if needed. I just begun chapter 4. Lets see how I will manage in there. Thanks to everyone for good tips... I try to survive somehow. [img]smile.gif[/img]

SixOfSpades · 03-25-2006, 06:59 PM

Regarding Mages: I find that 1.5 Wizards is usually best--somebody who studies the arcane arts full-time (like Edwin, Nalia or Imoen) so you can get to those great high-level spells as quickly as possible, and also a Multiclassed Mage (like Aerie or Jan) as backup, so you don't run out of spells like Magic Missile right away, or so you can fire off combinations of spells, like a Greater Malison and an Emotion: Hopelessness, in the same round.

Not many people like Nalia because she's so much like Imoen, and Imoen is far more versatile. People say, "Nalia sucks as a Thief! She can't do ANYTHING!" And, in a way, they're right: She's not a Thief, she's just a Mage who can use a Bow. As long as you have a real Thief in your party, you'll be fine. With that said, however, I must agree that Nalia sucks compared to Imoen, because Imoen is a competent Thief and therefore frees up a party slot for somebody else.

About Dragons: Dundee was quite right in that you should try to make yourself immune to the Breath Weapons that various Dragons use. But he forgot to point out that the Dragons themselves are already immune to those kinds of attacks. For example: If you're fighting a Red Dragon, you should know enough to cast things like Protection from Fire and FireShield: Red, and drink Potions of Fire Resistance before you charge in. But you should also know that spells like Flame Arrow, FireBall, Aganazzar's Scorcher, and the like aren't going to do you much good, because all Red Dragons are immune to Fire.
Also, beware of Wing Buffets. They affect a very large area, and it sucks when a Dragon knocks your Tanks out of the way and disrupts the spells that your back rank is casting, all with a single Wing Buffet. So try to position your party members well away from each other, so that a Buffet that knocks one guy unconscious won't affect any of the others.

General Stuff: Before big fights, spells like Haste, Stoneskin, Mirror Image, and Defensive Harmony are must-haves. Later on, Improved Haste (on your Warriors only) is also of great importance. But go out and get a few levels under your belt first (to say nothing of rescuing Imoen).

Uruk'hai Gard · 03-26-2006, 05:29 AM

SixOfSpades, thank you. Very good information and some of those tips against Red Dragon I havent thought about. Im now in chapter 4 in the "pirate city" trying to get inside Asylum. I try those tips if there is possibility to later get back to Red Dragon.

I use haste, stoneskin and improved invisibility very much but I dont have many great spells. Aerie is just lvl 11 mage right now and don't have access to 6 level spells yet. But its good to know importance of Mirror Image. Defensive harmony...eh, I have never used that, I thougt it was worthless...well, have to try it now.

And yes, I will definitely take Imoen in my party when I get her rescued. Then I will have two wizards and hopefully things will get little bit easier. I have started to like Valygar more, he is ok melee fighter, can sneak and now that he has those Gauntlets of ogre power and can use Heartseeker, he is quite lethal.

General question: Is it good to play with full group or less. I also have ToB installed and want to continue there with this group. Would it be better to reduce size of my group for faster character levelling? I think that I want at least keep Jaheira, Imoen and Aerie(dont like her personality but she is useful).

03-23-2006, 09:42 AM	#6
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 41 Posts: 11,063	There are a myriad of ways to slay a Dragon, and even within the different dragons in the game, each has its' own strengths and weaknesses. If you are fighting against a Dragon that breathes fire, then you will want to boost the Fire Resistance of all your party members. If it breathes ice, then you will want to boost the Cold Resistance of all your party members. And so on, and so forth. Understand also that Dragons tend to have strong magical protections. You will need to either Dispel them, or Breach them. Without removing these spell protections, most of your physical attacks will be wasted. Summons are also useful in distracting Dragons and taking the brunt of the attacks. A hit on your summon, is a hit not aimed at your party members. __________________ Click On The Image For BG2 Information Land of the Psycho-moe

03-25-2006, 06:59 PM	#9
SixOfSpades Dracolisk Join Date: September 16, 2001 Location: Bellingham, WA, USA Age: 46 Posts: 6,901	Regarding Mages: I find that 1.5 Wizards is usually best--somebody who studies the arcane arts full-time (like Edwin, Nalia or Imoen) so you can get to those great high-level spells as quickly as possible, and also a Multiclassed Mage (like Aerie or Jan) as backup, so you don't run out of spells like Magic Missile right away, or so you can fire off combinations of spells, like a Greater Malison and an Emotion: Hopelessness, in the same round. Not many people like Nalia because she's so much like Imoen, and Imoen is far more versatile. People say, "Nalia sucks as a Thief! She can't do ANYTHING!" And, in a way, they're right: She's not a Thief, she's just a Mage who can use a Bow. As long as you have a real Thief in your party, you'll be fine. With that said, however, I must agree that Nalia sucks compared to Imoen, because Imoen is a competent Thief and therefore frees up a party slot for somebody else. About Dragons: Dundee was quite right in that you should try to make yourself immune to the Breath Weapons that various Dragons use. But he forgot to point out that the Dragons themselves are already immune to those kinds of attacks. For example: If you're fighting a Red Dragon, you should know enough to cast things like Protection from Fire and FireShield: Red, and drink Potions of Fire Resistance before you charge in. But you should also know that spells like Flame Arrow, FireBall, Aganazzar's Scorcher, and the like aren't going to do you much good, because all Red Dragons are immune to Fire. Also, beware of Wing Buffets. They affect a very large area, and it sucks when a Dragon knocks your Tanks out of the way and disrupts the spells that your back rank is casting, all with a single Wing Buffet. So try to position your party members well away from each other, so that a Buffet that knocks one guy unconscious won't affect any of the others. General Stuff: Before big fights, spells like Haste, Stoneskin, Mirror Image, and Defensive Harmony are must-haves. Later on, Improved Haste (on your Warriors only) is also of great importance. But go out and get a few levels under your belt first (to say nothing of rescuing Imoen). __________________ Volothamp's Comeuppance Everything you ever needed to know about the entire Baldur's Gate series......except spoilers.

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03-23-2006, 05:29 AM	#1
Uruk'hai Gard Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: August 12, 2005 Location: Finland Age: 48 Posts: 24	I am confused. I don't understand how you people can play this game in insane difficulty or solo etc. I play normal difficulty with a full group and the game is still extremely challenging for me. Im currently in 3 chapter. I have tried many times to kill shadow dragon and Firkraag but I have no chance against them. It seems impossible. As for advancing through the game I do ok..lots of resting and reloading occasionally, though. My group is Cavalier (me) uses 2-hand sword (that talking sword) Minsc uses 2-hand sword or mace of disruption Jaheira uses +2 staff Aerie uses +3 sling Yoshimo uses short bow(very good, cant remember name) or short sword of backstabbing Valygar uses his own katana or heartseeker My usual tactic for fights is: Me and Minsc go melee, Jaheira might summon fire elemental and then comes with me and Minsc, Aerie uses his spells and/or sling and Y and V uses their bows. Is this ok tactic for general? Then how about those dragons? They are not must to kill, right? But I think they might have some nice treasures. Any help would be appreciated. But no "cheats", I want to win honestly.

03-23-2006, 07:46 AM	#2
Andraste Manshoon Join Date: June 8, 2003 Location: UK Age: 69 Posts: 182	I would say that your main problem is that you've only got half a mage. Mages spells are very powerful. Aerie is going to be useful later on, but as a dual class, she levels up at half rate. Two suggestions. 1) go and get Imoen back to beef up your magical attack. 2) put this game aside and play a solo sorcerer for a while - don't plan on going through the whole game, but just long enough to learn what mage spells can do for you in a fight

03-23-2006, 08:04 AM	#3
Cam_H Zhentarim Guard Join Date: July 12, 2005 Location: Australia, if you must know. Age: 58 Posts: 320	Playing with a full group of six has its disadvantages ... with the 'general' exception of quest rewards, experience points from monster kills and other XPs (for instance, trap disarming) get spread evenly throughout the group, so each party member levels-up fairly slowly, and therefore you may have many weaker party members rather than a few strong ones. Personally I have found groups of three tend to get the best of both worlds (fast levelling vs. broad skills) but I am not sure if this is your first run through, in which case erring on the side of a larger group may work out better for you. As for soloing, it's often a case of knowing which fights to pick, and the suitable tactics to address each particular challenge. Some classes are less perilous to solo if you've played the game a few times (such as Sorcerers) whereas others are 'a touch more touchy' (such as single-class Wizard Slayers). Soloists tend to know what equipment to chase first, where it is, and how to easily get it. It's hard to address your question regarding the dragons, as defining "cheats" is a pretty personal call. You can find no end of advice here (use the 'search' facility) or on other BG2 boards and web sites if you become utterly stuck on dragon slaying. As you say, you need not fight any dragons in this game, although you'll miss some good treasure, and in one instance, probably lose a lot. If you're really struggling with 'Big Red' and want a less than 'totally' cheesy but still slightly smelly tactic ... (Ctrl-A or Click-and-drag-over-below for a moderately cryptic approach); One approach may be to use a decoy party member and the other party members use potent missiles to bring down Big Red from afar. The decoy must be courageous, ice cool, and stand - or even crawl - with resilience to severe physical attack. Physical attack protection? Do you smell a Rat? Rats the sewers? Which sewers, pray tell?! Potent missiles ... perhaps an expert in arrows may have some bundles for procurement? Are you keen to walk to procure an expert's missiles? Steal me away then - drink up before down to business. Confused? Finally, just a quick thought or two on your tactic for fights - both Valygar and Yoshimo can backstab, so I would consider that as an option in most fights. Yoshimo is a Bounty Hunter and can lay traps including 'throwable' special traps (although he starts with a horrible 'Set Traps' stat and this needs boosting to be reliable {if not using the 'bottomless traps' cheese}). And Aerie is a female, we think ... [img]smile.gif[/img]

03-23-2006, 09:36 AM	#5
Uruk'hai Gard Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: August 12, 2005 Location: Finland Age: 48 Posts: 24	Wow, thanks for the tips! Im not going to start again because I have already played many many hours to get even where I am right now(I play quite slowly and try to explore everything that I can find). Yes, I thought that I might need another mage (Aerie has been surprisingly useful). I met Edwin and thought to take him but then I realised that he was evil. I want to rescue Imoen and get her to my group (probably switching Yoshimo or Valygar for her, because I cant use them effectively other than shooting arrows and Yoshimo disarming things). That should help. But I dont know how long it will take (and how tough monsters I will encounter) before that. So maybe I should reconsider that Nalia. Her quest is one that I havent tried (others are Korgans quest and that missing actor quest, and I havent gone place called Watchers Keep yet). But clearly my cavalier, Jaheira and Aerie have been most important to my group and Yoshimo because of the trap disarming. Maybe that backstabbing is also thing to consider. Whoah, there seems to be so much possibilities and different ways to play this game. ps. Cam H, nice cryptic message, thanks [img]smile.gif[/img]

03-23-2006, 02:03 PM	#8
Uruk'hai Gard Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: August 12, 2005 Location: Finland Age: 48 Posts: 24	I tested backstabbing and it seemed very effective. Its good for certain situations. I tried to kill Firkraag once more but didn't manage so I decided to continue the main plot and rescue Imoen ASAP. I bought Staff of Rynn for Jaheira so now I have 3 good tanks if needed. I just begun chapter 4. Lets see how I will manage in there. Thanks to everyone for good tips... I try to survive somehow. [img]smile.gif[/img]

03-26-2006, 05:29 AM	#10
Uruk'hai Gard Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: August 12, 2005 Location: Finland Age: 48 Posts: 24	SixOfSpades, thank you. Very good information and some of those tips against Red Dragon I havent thought about. Im now in chapter 4 in the "pirate city" trying to get inside Asylum. I try those tips if there is possibility to later get back to Red Dragon. I use haste, stoneskin and improved invisibility very much but I dont have many great spells. Aerie is just lvl 11 mage right now and don't have access to 6 level spells yet. But its good to know importance of Mirror Image. Defensive harmony...eh, I have never used that, I thougt it was worthless...well, have to try it now. And yes, I will definitely take Imoen in my party when I get her rescued. Then I will have two wizards and hopefully things will get little bit easier. I have started to like Valygar more, he is ok melee fighter, can sneak and now that he has those Gauntlets of ogre power and can use Heartseeker, he is quite lethal. General question: Is it good to play with full group or less. I also have ToB installed and want to continue there with this group. Would it be better to reduce size of my group for faster character levelling? I think that I want at least keep Jaheira, Imoen and Aerie(dont like her personality but she is useful).

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