questions concerning party sorcerer spells

TordenkalveN · 10-12-2003, 12:22 PM

I've read dundee's Party Sorcerer Spell List, but I am a little confused about the choices of 6th level spells.

contingensy - When is that an important spell?

Death spell - creatures with more than 8 HD are imune. Those beneath are easy enough to kill anyway. is it only to slay summons?

Don't get me wrong, I know that dundee is a better player than me [img]smile.gif[/img] ... I am just confused..

Lord · 10-12-2003, 01:56 PM

Dundee also gives an explanation of why he chose each spell per level, however, I agree about the death spell part, that is not a spell I'd use. I believe it can also kill your party members, including you. It's not a spell that I'd use. However, contingency is a very powerful spell. Say you are in the thick of battle and are nearly dead, you just put a stoneskin and a protection from magical weapons in your contingency, and there you have it! You can take a few hits with out taking damage, and also become more resistant to attacks from some magical weapons. There are some many nice combos you can put in there.

Userunfriendly · 10-12-2003, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lord:
Dundee also gives an explanation of why he chose each spell per level, however, I agree about the death spell part, that is not a spell I'd use. I believe it can also kill your party members, including you. It's not a spell that I'd use. However, contingency is a very powerful spell. Say you are in the thick of battle and are nearly dead, you just put a stoneskin and a protection from magical weapons in your contingency, and there you have it! You can take a few hits with out taking damage, and also become more resistant to attacks from some magical weapons. There are some many nice combos you can put in there.

urm...death spell is incredibly useful and fun....

it will NOT harm your own party, and you can use it to dispose of goblins and other fodder, including umber hulks and another plot crucial encounter enemy...

and it will instantly kill summons, very important in tactics mod...

contingency is only ONE spell...and yes its incredibly useful...however its debatable whether a sorceror should really have them...chain contingency tends to be much more useful for a sorceror, since its more useful to obliterate an enemy with a chain than it is to raise protection from magic weapons, since you got tanks and such for this...

however, a cleric mage, contingency becomes your friend!!! contingency heal at 50% hp is wonderful...contingency free action on helpless, or chaotic commands on helpless is incredibly powerful and saves your bacon lots...

now i personally always take contingency for my sorc...however, there is a school of thought that a sorc only needs spell trigger and chain contingency...only carry the best two macro spells, and fill up the rest with destruction spells...

[ 10-17-2003, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: Userunfriendly ]

Assassin · 10-12-2003, 02:37 PM

I would say take Spell Sequencer as well as Spell Trigger. You can have both active at the same time, and Spell Sequencers can be filled with those defensive spells that are lower level and you don't want to bother to put in your Contingency/Spell Trigger.

As for Contingency- If you're in a solo game, then yes, I would recommend you taking it. However, if you're in a party game, I don't really see the point of it. If you're taking damage from whatever source, I would just hit that source with my archer(s), to hopefully draw some attention away from the Sorcerer, who immediately casts Stoneskin/Mirror Skin/whatever. While Contingency will save your bacon sometimes, it really doesn't hold up to the other spells at level 6.

Zuvio · 10-12-2003, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lord:
~SNIP~ I agree about the death spell part, that is not a spell I'd use. I believe it can also kill your party members, including you. It's not a spell that I'd use. ~SNIP~

Woooww!!! Dude! What have you been smoking? Did you actually ever used the spell or read the description??

Picture this: Solo sorcerer faces 35 umber hulks! What does he do? Deathspell! 99.999 kobolds? Deathspell! Spiders? Deathspell!

Deathspell is one kickass handy-dandy, tax-free spell my friend

Userunfriendly · 10-12-2003, 08:52 PM

oh yeah...solo sorc NEEDS contingency...because it can cast while paused, its got the same wonderful cheesyness of its mandatory big brother, chain contingency...actually dundee is right, a solo sorc needs all of the macro spells...here are some fun things to do...

chain contingency...(target self OR nearest enemy)
remove magic, and abi dahzim/abi dahzim...(this will end most lich fights, nasty encounters...best of all, this is safe to cast on yourself!!!)

spell trigger(cast on self)...remove magic, sunfire, sunfire...
(the user's special variant, totally safe to use!!!) sunfire, delay blast fireball, delay blast fireball...

spell trigger (cast on target)lower resistance, lower resistance, malison
(have this and the chain above will settle most dragon fights...)

contingency...sunfire

spell sequencer...(cast on self) after casting protection from magic energy...skulltrap, skulltrap, skulltrap...the dreaded skullfire combination...

cast on target...breach, flame arrow, flamearrow...

minor sequencer..cast on self...resist fear, mirror image..
cast on target..spook, chromatic orb...

[ 10-12-2003, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: Userunfriendly ]

Dundee Slaytern · 10-13-2003, 05:24 AM

Having both Contingencies will add immeasurably to your spellcasting abilities. Being able to cast 3 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting + PfMagical Weapons + Time Stop(or PRATI if you wish to overkill) at the same time for your first casting is invaluable.

Chain Contingency for the initial offense (deadly if they do not have spell protections)
Contingency for defense to prevent spell failure (Mislead is an alternative choice)
Time Stop for the kill (if the CC-Bomb does not do them in)

Maybe for "minor" battles, you will not feel the urge or need to use lesser spell sequencers/contingencies, but for major battles, they can prove to be worth their weight in gold.

Death Spell is so useful I am at a loss to start explaining why it is so. To summarise the usefulness of it, consider this.

Most enemies in BG2 have less than 8HD. The only thing that will save their arse from Death Spell is Magic Resistance, of which it is also very uncommon. If you are not using Death Spell often, then it can only mean you did not understand when to use it. Fret not though, most players do not.

The most crucial thing Death Spell can do though, is its' ability to slay all summons (note, summoned creatures, not gated ones) without question. Instead of wasting rounds trying to chop-suey through them (rounds which the enemy can spend chipping away at you, rounds in which your protections will wear out), you can simply dispel them ALL with a spell. Nifty.

Lord · 10-13-2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zuvio:

quote:
Originally posted by Lord:
~SNIP~ I agree about the death spell part, that is not a spell I'd use. I believe it can also kill your party members, including you. It's not a spell that I'd use. ~SNIP~

Woooww!!! Dude! What have you been smoking? Did you actually ever used the spell or read the description??

Picture this: Solo sorcerer faces 35 umber hulks! What does he do? Deathspell! 99.999 kobolds? Deathspell! Spiders? Deathspell!

Deathspell is one kickass handy-dandy, tax-free spell my friend
[/QUOTE]I must be thinking of the wrong spell. I remember fighting a lich once and he cast some sort of death spell I think, and the spell killed him before I even got within fighting range of them. It was actually kinda funny, I had just entered through a doorway, the lich casts a spell on me, and then he's dead before I even start fighting

I had thought it was the Death Spell, so it seems like I was thinking about the wrong spell.

Firestormalpha · 10-13-2003, 11:30 AM

You might be thinking Death Fog. Did it have a billowing cloud type animation, similar to Cloudkill, yet different? Or some spell of similar nature?

Assassin · 10-13-2003, 11:44 AM

I'm curious, Dundee, why you didn't choose Improved Haste in your level 6 picks for a party sorcerer. It greatly improves the effectiveness of your warriors. It's so powerful that I just have to cast that spell, and put on the Agressive script for all of my warriors, and the enemies just fall down. I mean, Remove Magic and Breach, then I usually don't even get to see the summons before they fall. Then, if you're really feeling evil, cast Regeneration on the most heavily injured ones. Sure, if you only have 1 Sorcerer, you might not use it, but even if you have 3 frontliners and 2 Mages, those 2 Mages can easily Improved Haste each one twice over.

10-12-2003, 01:56 PM	#2
Lord Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: June 3, 2003 Location: New York Age: 39 Posts: 3,302	Dundee also gives an explanation of why he chose each spell per level, however, I agree about the death spell part, that is not a spell I'd use. I believe it can also kill your party members, including you. It's not a spell that I'd use. However, contingency is a very powerful spell. Say you are in the thick of battle and are nearly dead, you just put a stoneskin and a protection from magical weapons in your contingency, and there you have it! You can take a few hits with out taking damage, and also become more resistant to attacks from some magical weapons. There are some many nice combos you can put in there. __________________ "You're a thief and a liar." "No, I only lied about being a thief."

10-12-2003, 02:37 PM	#4
Assassin Symbol of Cyric Join Date: March 23, 2003 Location: Canada Age: 36 Posts: 1,134	I would say take Spell Sequencer as well as Spell Trigger. You can have both active at the same time, and Spell Sequencers can be filled with those defensive spells that are lower level and you don't want to bother to put in your Contingency/Spell Trigger. As for Contingency- If you're in a solo game, then yes, I would recommend you taking it. However, if you're in a party game, I don't really see the point of it. If you're taking damage from whatever source, I would just hit that source with my archer(s), to hopefully draw some attention away from the Sorcerer, who immediately casts Stoneskin/Mirror Skin/whatever. While Contingency will save your bacon sometimes, it really doesn't hold up to the other spells at level 6. __________________ In The Terminator, Sarah Connor is told a speech by John Connor\'s father that John has given in the future. When John is born, Sarah tells John this speech, and John grows up to tell it in the future. So who wrote the speech?!

10-12-2003, 08:52 PM	#6
Userunfriendly Elminster Join Date: October 11, 2003 Location: Sluggy Zone Age: 58 Posts: 487	oh yeah...solo sorc NEEDS contingency...because it can cast while paused, its got the same wonderful cheesyness of its mandatory big brother, chain contingency...actually dundee is right, a solo sorc needs all of the macro spells...here are some fun things to do... chain contingency...(target self OR nearest enemy) remove magic, and abi dahzim/abi dahzim...(this will end most lich fights, nasty encounters...best of all, this is safe to cast on yourself!!!) spell trigger(cast on self)...remove magic, sunfire, sunfire... (the user's special variant, totally safe to use!!!) sunfire, delay blast fireball, delay blast fireball... spell trigger (cast on target)lower resistance, lower resistance, malison (have this and the chain above will settle most dragon fights...) contingency...sunfire spell sequencer...(cast on self) after casting protection from magic energy...skulltrap, skulltrap, skulltrap...the dreaded skullfire combination... cast on target...breach, flame arrow, flamearrow... minor sequencer..cast on self...resist fear, mirror image.. cast on target..spook, chromatic orb... [ 10-12-2003, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: Userunfriendly ] __________________ Jansens aren\'t as harmless like everybody supposes! <br />They got them stumpy legs and puffy potato noses! <br />And what\'s with all the turnips? <br />Why do they eat so much root vegetables, anyway? <br />Jansens, Jansens,<br />It must be Jansens!!!<br />(or griffins!)

10-13-2003, 05:24 AM	#7
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 41 Posts: 11,063	Having both Contingencies will add immeasurably to your spellcasting abilities. Being able to cast 3 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting + PfMagical Weapons + Time Stop(or PRATI if you wish to overkill) at the same time for your first casting is invaluable. Chain Contingency for the initial offense (deadly if they do not have spell protections) Contingency for defense to prevent spell failure (Mislead is an alternative choice) Time Stop for the kill (if the CC-Bomb does not do them in) Maybe for "minor" battles, you will not feel the urge or need to use lesser spell sequencers/contingencies, but for major battles, they can prove to be worth their weight in gold. Death Spell is so useful I am at a loss to start explaining why it is so. To summarise the usefulness of it, consider this. Most enemies in BG2 have less than 8HD. The only thing that will save their arse from Death Spell is Magic Resistance, of which it is also very uncommon. If you are not using Death Spell often, then it can only mean you did not understand when to use it. Fret not though, most players do not. The most crucial thing Death Spell can do though, is its' ability to slay all summons (note, summoned creatures, not gated ones) without question. Instead of wasting rounds trying to chop-suey through them (rounds which the enemy can spend chipping away at you, rounds in which your protections will wear out), you can simply dispel them ALL with a spell. Nifty. __________________ Click On The Image For BG2 Information Land of the Psycho-moe

10-13-2003, 11:30 AM	#9
Firestormalpha Knight of the Rose Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Coral Springs, Fl USA Age: 40 Posts: 4,454	You might be thinking Death Fog. Did it have a billowing cloud type animation, similar to Cloudkill, yet different? Or some spell of similar nature? __________________ "When you start with a presupposition, it's hard to arrive at any other conclusion." "We are never to judge a philosophy by its abuse." - Augustine "If you're wondering if God has a sense of humor, consider the platypus." http://www.greaterthings.cbglades.com

10-12-2003, 12:22 PM	#1
TordenkalveN Dungeon Master Join Date: May 4, 2003 Location: Denmark Age: 38 Posts: 50	I've read dundee's Party Sorcerer Spell List, but I am a little confused about the choices of 6th level spells. contingensy - When is that an important spell? Death spell - creatures with more than 8 HD are imune. Those beneath are easy enough to kill anyway. is it only to slay summons? Don't get me wrong, I know that dundee is a better player than me [img]smile.gif[/img] ... I am just confused..

10-13-2003, 11:44 AM	#10
Assassin Symbol of Cyric Join Date: March 23, 2003 Location: Canada Age: 36 Posts: 1,134	I'm curious, Dundee, why you didn't choose Improved Haste in your level 6 picks for a party sorcerer. It greatly improves the effectiveness of your warriors. It's so powerful that I just have to cast that spell, and put on the Agressive script for all of my warriors, and the enemies just fall down. I mean, Remove Magic and Breach, then I usually don't even get to see the summons before they fall. Then, if you're really feeling evil, cast Regeneration on the most heavily injured ones. Sure, if you only have 1 Sorcerer, you might not use it, but even if you have 3 frontliners and 2 Mages, those 2 Mages can easily Improved Haste each one twice over. __________________ In The Terminator, Sarah Connor is told a speech by John Connor\'s father that John has given in the future. When John is born, Sarah tells John this speech, and John grows up to tell it in the future. So who wrote the speech?!

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