Mr Saddam, you have mail!

[Neb]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: quote: Originally posted by Neb: Possibly because the US brings it on themselves? The attitude of most americans I've encountered has been amazingly annoying. This is achieved by being arrogant, nationalistic and close-minded. I'm not saying that's how it is for all, but in fact the majority that I've met and debated with online. So perhaps there's a reason for the dislike? Believe it or not, but the US might have an attitude problem, rather than the rest of the world needing to just accept it.

Then come on over and meet a larger variety of them, dear. We aren't all bad. [/QUOTE]I know that you're not all bad [img]smile.gif[/img] I believe that I stated so, but so far the majority of my encounters have been less than 100% pleasant. I'm even willing to believe that the majority of all americans are nice enough. But the dislike that a good amount of people feel for the US, I believe, stems from encounters with these people and their stupidity.

People see a couple of bad apples and assume the entire barrel to be rotten. And sadly enough their dislike of the US isn't made any less by the US leaders that seem to mainly use their control of the probably most powerful nation in the world, at the moment, as a free pass to ignore rules that they don't like and do whatever pleases them.

[Iron_Ranger]

Originally posted by Lord Shield: i personally have one beef with the Amrican government they FUNDED the IRA terrorists who blew the crap out of ENGLISH. My DAd's only alive cause he missed his train once yet US expected EVERYBODY to drop everything and sob when someonbe got you back? America is NOT perfect, ,no more or less than ANYBODY else. the "attitude" you speak of is TWO-WAY, not ONE and yes, IR, I read the whole thread

I dont know enough about the IRA sintiuation to comment on it. Maybe MagiK does. I think Sept 11th was horribly misunderstood. 3000+ people died, yes, a land mark of american captilism was brought down, yes, those are horrible things. And should be mourned by anyone with the least bit of compassion. But, it was an attack on THE WESTERN WORLD including England, France, Canada, America, and Denmark.

And the fact that you read the entire thread and we are having this conversation is amazing.

Edit: Neb..Americans are close-minded?

[ 10-29-2002, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Iron_Ranger ]

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Kaltia: Sorry, Nact, my apologies [img]smile.gif[/img]

Accepted Kaltia. [img]smile.gif[/img] No worries hon.

[/qb] I TRY to keep a sensible head...but LS just started a new thing. The IRA. WHAT is this about the US FUNDING the stupid £&$&(^&??? LS, is this old news? I have a mate who lived in Dfublin...was in the pub having a good time when a shrapnel bomb when off. Bam. He can't walk anymore. The IRA are so...so....you know, i can hardly remember what they're fighting over anymore. Wasn't it that IRA member who turned tail and started going on about human rights while raping his seven-year-old daughter at home?[/QB]

Erm...not even going to touch this. I would imagine that a seperate thread would be more appropriate. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: Then come on over and meet a larger variety of them, dear. We aren't all bad.

*POUNCE*

[img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img]

Hi Honey!!! Been wanting to do that all day.

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: And the fact that you read the entire thread and we are having this conversation is amazing.

if you say so

[ 10-29-2002, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Lord Shield ]

[Neb]

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: And should be mourned by anyone with the least bit of compassion. But, it was an attack on THE WESTERN WORLD including England, France, Canada, America, and Denmark. And the fact that you read the entire thread and we are having this conversation is amazing. Edit: Neb..Americans are close-minded?

Okay, in order: Yes, I have compassion for the US victims. But that doesn't mean that I should instantly love the US and all of it's citizens, and still leaves me free to criticize them as much as I want.

The majority of those that I've met so far have been highly patriotic at least bordering on nationalism. Nationalism is an unfounded and love of one's country that ignores all logic or things that speak against that love. That equals a refusal to listen. Refusing to listen to anything else that's said, or to consider it, equals closemindedness to me.

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Lord Shield: sorry, Jim - I know you and Amber are better example of Americans IMO [img]smile.gif[/img] - but io was buggereed if i was gonna just sit back at another "boohoo - Europeans are picking on us" fest again me done

Awww...stop it Adam...you're gonna make me go all squidgy. [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img] to LS...ON THE CHEEK TENTACLE BOY!! Sheesh! Weirdo. HEHEHEHE

[Timber Loftis]

I think the point, that no one was trying to make originally, that many Europeans and, indeed, folks of all sorts of other countries have a problem with Americans has just been established on this thread. No matter what any of you say you were trying to say, it's obvious. Now, your problem may be, and likely is (from what I've seen), the arrogance of Americans, but that's still a problem, no?

When I have spent a few months working in Europe before, I have noticed that I made great friends who loved a good discussion, a good beer, and a good rugby game. But, I always ended up spending a lot of my time justifying the acts of my government, or the attitudes of Americans, or whatever else had narked someone about America recently. A good friend even referred to himself as one of "your poorer British cousins" on more than one occassion - and his obvious (and admitted) problems was the arrogance/self-absorbtion he saw in Americans.

I think it boils down to demographics. The USA, assuming everything else like economy, technology, and culture are equal between USA and EU (a fair assumption), is simply BIGGER. Even though the economy of Spain might be just as healthy, it takes all of the EU to rival the US in terms of sheer bulk of people, money, and political influence. That size means that the US is in most news stories, even if it's just an analysis of how it will react, whereas France may not be in so many. But, if you aggregate the EU countries together, you'd find just as many stories.

Just some thoughts.

[edit] Regarding recent (see above) accusations of Nationalism by Neb, I think he might be right. Americans say "we" when we talk about what the USA government does. I've almost never heard a European say that. There's an identification with our nation and our government combined with fierce loyalty to our collective independence that makes Americans pretty damn patriotic vis-a-vis other first-world nations. "But, don't blame us - we're just the best," he said, once again using the royal plural. [img]graemlins/evilhaha.gif[/img]

[ 10-29-2002, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: Edit: Neb..Americans are close-minded?

Just commenting on this one part. Erm...IR...There are quite a few close minded Americans. There are quite a few close minded Eurpoeans. There are also quite a few close minded Botswanans! Being an ass is pretty much a universal trait. We are all guilty of it at one point or another.

[Iron_Ranger]

Originally posted by Lord Shield: quote: Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: And the fact that you read the entire thread and we are having this conversation is amazing.

is it? i have 8 people in chat think otherwise

but that's up to you[/QUOTE]Yes it is. Did you happen to miss all the meaphores about the houses and what not?

Look, I have no problem with most eroupeans, alot of my friends are eroupeans. There nice people, good friends, and great to hang around.

But almost all the time, I see its eroupeans that change the subject you America vs Eroupe. I was not saying that America is better. America is the most powerfull, influential country in the entire world. Thats where the nicest house metaphore came from.