On Depression, Its Causes and DIET

[Shadowstrider]

Moni, if you like I will personally disect and breakdown EVERY post in the PMS thread in which Kiwidoc and yourself verbally sparred. Not once did she attack you, and I am very willing to disect that thread.

[bilqis2]

Originally posted by Moni: Do your medications have anything to do with depression? If not, your post was totally unnecssary and unfounded toward the content of this thread. My posts were attacked and I defended them with fact.

The PMS thread turned into quite the debate. I agree with Shadowstrider, you were not being attacked, Kiwidoc only refuted your statements with some of her own. She also stated that if you had not meant them to sound the way they did, then perhaps to think of how you phrase things in the future. That is not an attack.

My point was very relevent to this thread in that there are times when medication is necessary to deal with chemical imbalances ~ WHICH DEPRESSION CAN BE! I know because I am on Wellbutrin and likely will be on it the rest of my life because of my family history on BOTH sides of chronic depression. This despite my change in diet, increased exercise, good attitude, study and therapy.

I accept that I will need to take it because I feel SO MUCH BETTER on it and am actually able to function. I am finally feeling 'normal' -- without crippling anxiety, immobilizing depression, memory loss, etc. So I know what I'm speaking about from a personal point of view. It is NOT something I reveal easily to people BECAUSE of the stigma and the attitude you purported to have on the PMS thread, and that is unfortunately still so prevelent - that somehow if people only would buck up, change their attitude or circumstances or diet or something else that they maybe could control.. then they'd get better without the need for meds.

Time to stop perpetuating that belief, and allow compassion and understanding to reign. I agree with you that those things you mentioned are worth trying, but they won't work for everyone. I am not flaming you Moni.. I respect your opinion,I understand your opinion, I HEAR your opinion. I just don't happen to AGREE with your opinion. And let's leave it at that shall we?

Thank you.

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Having abandoned my
search for Truth,
I am now looking for
a good fantasy.
(Yes, I AM at work now ~ hehe)

ShadowStrider,
Scroll up...I included every word in the reply of mine to Kiwidoc including quoting her and backed up everything I was being attacked for saying.

I like kiwidoc!

The fact of the matter remains though that the things I said were twisted to imply something totally different than what was actually said.

The above post by Bilqis is another fine example of such twisting one's words to mean something else at work if you don't get the concept of people having to defend themselves against serious misunderstandings that people take it upon themselves to reply to when they, in fact, imply that you are saying something else altogether.

I Really Do Care
Moni

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[Shadowstrider]

Originally posted by Moni: ShadowStrider, Scroll up...I included every word in the reply of mine to Kiwidoc including quoting her and backed up everything I was being attacked for saying. I like kiwidoc! The fact of the matter remains though that the things I said were twisted to imply something totally different than what was actually said. The above post by Bilqis is another fine example of such twisting one's words to mean something else at work if you don't get the concept of people having to defend themselves against serious misunderstandings that people take it upon themselves to reply to when they, in fact, imply that you are saying something else altogether. I Really Do Care Moni

Another fine, overblown post. Is it so hard for you to admit that kiwidoc NEVER attacked you? She did say you were wrong and give facts of which she has knowledge of to prove it. Is that somehow attacking YOU?!?

I think you need to realise that a statement made TOWARDS you is not a statement ABOUT you.

Bilqis,

Originally posted by kiwidoc: Moni these are the quotes from your posts that led people to think you were opposed to the concept that some PMS and some forms of Depression are physical illnesses that require treatment rather than something the person can do for themselves. This implies that they COULD do it but didn't. I have also included the statements that led people to believe you were oppesed to the use of medication and to psychiatry in general.

Excuse me but the things I said were taken out of context and twisted to imply that they had other meanings...scroll up and read for yourself here please!
My posts were attacked by stating that I had implied this or that! It is the truth and all I did here was attempt to back myself and offer help to people on this board who do suffer from depression who got confused by all the back and forth debating between me and kiwidoc yesterday over my statements being refuted and me defending them...right down to our last posts where I was attacked for saying certain things that I clarified as fact and truth.

I should not have to sit here and repeat myself over and over again regarding the fact that

I know that not all people are alike or will respond in the same way to different approaches toward healing

I believe I even include in my first post here that the site lists different medications and their side effects!

I Really Do Care
Moni




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Originally posted by Shadowstrider: Another fine, overblown post. Is it so hard for you to admit that kiwidoc NEVER attacked you? She did say you were wrong and give facts of which she has knowledge of to prove it. Is that somehow attacking YOU?!? I think you need to realise that a statement made TOWARDS you is not a statement ABOUT you.

The facts are in the very first post of this thread.
Go click on the link and read them
Telling me that I implied this or that is an attack and if you would (and I repeat myself again hahaha) go read my reply to her and you can see for yourself where I backed myself up...with truth...with fact.

Moni



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[Melusine]

I hope I am not inflaming matters any further, but I have to ask all of you to PLEASE stay civil and not let the heat of the arguement lead you to saying things that you will regret.
I myself have a pretty strong opinion on this subject, as I have enough experience with it to know what works and doesn't work for me, but I will refrain from adding to this discussion anymore, as it is obvious that there is little left that will add something constructive to this thread.
Moni and Kiwidoc especially seem to have pretty opposite opinions on this matter, can't you just leave it at that? If you *do* insist on further discussion, please keep it civil and objective, don't see personal attacks where there aren't any! (Moni I have to say I can't see a single post in the PMS thread where Kiwidoc attacks you personally )
I apologise if I am being patronising or something, but I'd really hate to see this thread (further) disintegrate the relations between board members
Thanks!!
PS Just wanted to say that I think you are all great people , and since our community is grown so large, there will always be people with whom you disagree. This is good, because it only makes discussions more interesting (for example Fljotsdale's and Yorick's debates ) but it will only stay fun if you realise that it DOESN'T matter if other people disagree with you, and that you can't always win people over to your side


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Melusine, High Queen of Fluffies, Archbabe of the Order of the Holy Flame and the Laughing Hyenas, &
Official Entertainer Elf of the BG2 Bar

Your voice is ambrosia

[This message has been edited by Melusine (edited 06-21-2001).]

[Moridin]

Originally stated by Kiwidoc
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I am very, very sad to say that this is how life is for tens of thousands of people who dont get the help they need because of the stigma of mental illness. Currently medication is the ONLY thing that has been shown to help these people. They genuinely cannot help themsleves. I truly wish we had better treatment, be we do save lives with what we have. Severe Depression is a fatal disorder - it kills people.
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Please read the following

Antidepressant medications are the most popular treatment for unipolar depression in the United States, although there may be safer alternatives that are equally or more effective. This article reviews a wide range of well-controlled studies comparing psychological and pharmacological treatments for depression. The evidence suggests that the psychological interventions, particularly cognitive–behavioral therapy, are at least as effective as medication in the treatment of depression, even if severe . These conclusions hold for both vegetative and social adjustment symptoms, especially when patient-rated measures are used and long-term follow-up is considered. Some aspirational guidelines for the treatment of depression are proposed.

If you would like to read this entire study, please click on the link

http://www.apa.org/journals/anton.html

This is not an attack, this is a rebuttal!


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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.



[This message has been edited by Moridin (edited 06-21-2001).]

[bilqis2]

Originally posted by Melusine: I hope I am not inflaming matters any further, but I have to ask all of you to PLEASE stay civil and not let the heat of the arguement lead you to saying things that you will regret. I myself have a pretty strong opinion on this subject, as I have enough experience with it to know what works and doesn't work for me, but I will refrain from adding to this discussion anymore, as it is obvious that there is little left that will add something constructive to this thread. Moni and Kiwidoc especially seem to have pretty opposite opinions on this matter, can't you just leave it at that? If you *do* insist on further discussion, please keep it civil and objective, don't see personal attacks where there aren't any! (Moni I have to say I can't see a single post in the PMS thread where Kiwidoc attacks you personally ) I apologise if I am being patronising or something, but I'd really hate to see this thread (further) disintegrate the relations between board members Thanks!! PS Just wanted to say that I think you are all great people , and since our community is grown so large, there will always be people with whom you disagree. This is good, because it only makes discussions more interesting (for example Fljotsdale's and Yorick's debates ) but it will only stay fun if you realise that it DOESN'T matter if other people disagree with you, and that you can't always win people over to your side

AMEN Melusine! *applause*


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Having abandoned my
search for Truth,
I am now looking for
a good fantasy.
(Yes, I AM at work now ~ hehe)

Originally posted by ShadowStrider: You attacked kiwidoc, as where at best she attacked your posts. The difference between her attacking YOU and her attacking your posts is like a river to an ocean.

So let me get this straight...it is your opinion in my defense of what I posted, that I attacked Kiwidoc...but in her refuting truths that I posted and her attacking my posts that I personally was left out of the attack on what I said?

It was said that I personally stated things that implied this or that...does putting it that way imply that I was not under attack for the help I tried to be to women who suffer from PMS or people who suffer from depression?

That is quite an elementary point of view by someone who obviously has more respect for Kiwidoc as a person than they do me...I don't have a problem with that, but lets not twist the truth into being something pretty for one and ugly for another when it is ugly all over.

All arguments against valid help for both situations are, in my opinion ugly.
I am too intelligent to further debate your opinion with you.

Moni

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