Jury Doesn't Buy Insanity Plea

Andrea Yates, the Texas mother who drowned all 5 of her young children was found guilty of three counts of first degree murder yesterday.
She has yet to be charged for the other two children she murdered.
Texas state law requires that in order to be found Not Guilty for reasons of insanity, it must be proven that the defendent did not know right from wrong when committing the crime(s) for which they are charged.

By her own testimony, Andrea Yates had planned the murders of her children for quite some time and had blamed post partum depression when she carried out those plans.

It is yet to be seen as to whether or not she will recieve the death penalty but it is unlikey since her "victim" (her husband) won't request it and since she is of no danger to anyone should she ever be released (other than any future children she might have).

I agree with the jury's decision to find her guilty.
The testimony that she herself gave the court was heart-wrenching when it came to the attempts the children made to save themselves.

The death penalty in this case IMO would be a bit over the edge.
I'd like to see her made well enough to comprehend and thoroughly regret her actions against her own children. I'd also like to see her sterilized.

[Lord of Alcohol]

We disareed before Moni, but....your right. I dont wish the death penalty on her. Obviously she has mental problems. Give her the rest of her life to think about those problems where she cant hurt any more children. Hers or anyone elses. A sad story

[img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]
Hiya LoA
You know, in the beginning, I would have been first in line to pull the switch on this b*tch for what she did to her kids, but seeing her husband stick with her without shedding a tear, hearing her tell how her kids struggled without any emotion whatsoever just p*ssed me off to no end...I say let her live, locked up and without the company of her husband beyond visits through a plexiglass wall, give her psychiatric treatment and counseling and lead her around to seeing how horrific what she did was.
Then pull the switch.

[Azred]

I am one of many here who live under the Lone Star and I must admit that the legal definition of "the person who does not know the difference between right and wrong" seems to be a very weak guideline. Granted, I haven't yet looked up the exact phrasing in the Penal Code (but I will), but doesn't that definition leave a lot up to personal judgement? Also, sociopaths know the difference between right and wrong but don't care, so are sociopaths not insane?

example (not that I would, mind you):
1) You and your spouse argue and then you hit that person.
2) You and your spouse argue, your spouse picks up a knife or gun, and then you hit that person.
Based on these two situations the question "Is is wrong to hit your spouse?" will have different answers from different people. Which is right and which is wrong? If you can't tell the difference are you "insane"?

Questions of legal definitions aside, she was found guilty of capital murder; based on the historical outcomes in Harris County she is highly likely to receive the death penalty, like it or not.

My personal prognostication: look for her family to bring a civil suit against Russell Yates.

quote:

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Originally posted by Azred:
I am one of many here who live under the Lone Star and I must admit that the legal definition of "the person who does not know the difference between right and wrong" seems to be a very weak guideline. Granted, I haven't yet looked up the exact phrasing in the Penal Code (but I will), but doesn't that definition leave a lot up to personal judgement? Also, sociopaths know the difference between right and wrong but don't care, so are sociopaths not insane?

example (not that I would, mind you):
1) You and your spouse argue and then you hit that person.
2) You and your spouse argue, your spouse picks up a knife or gun, and then you hit that person.
Based on these two situations the question "Is is wrong to hit your spouse?" will have different answers from different people. Which is right and which is wrong? If you can't tell the difference are you "insane"?

Questions of legal definitions aside, she was found guilty of capital murder; based on the historical outcomes in Harris County she is highly likely to receive the death penalty, like it or not.

My personal prognostication: look for her family to bring a civil suit against Russell Yates.

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That definition leaves a lot to personal judgement, yes...the reason being that the guy who shot Reagan (Hinkley?) got an aquital by pleaing not guilty for reason of insanity...it gave the nation the message that anyone could try to shoot our elected leaders and get off "for reason of insanity", prompting the government and individual states to literally define insanity if it is to be used as a defense criminal cases.

An average of only one out of every four cases using the insanity plea wins.

"Right" and "Wrong" in criminal cases using the insanity plea are backed by testimony from licensed, reputable psychologists who have interviewed the defendent and determined their "legal" state of mind, which in the case of Mrs. Yates, turned out to be that she knew what she was doing and she knew it was wrong.

Knowing that seven of the twelve jurors have children it won't surprise me if Mrs. Yates does get the death penalty but I happen to think that making a statement to women who suffer from post partum depression on a national level is necessary in terms of help IS available and it doesn't have to go this far to be able to get it.
Its a serious matter.

I do hope Mr. Yates is charged in a civil case. He is no less guilty than his wife since he never sought to get her help knowing her state of mind, knowing that she was a danger to their children and allowing her to continue having them.

[Garnet FalconDance]

Agreed, Moni. This is quite the topic in our house right now--evey time the case is mentioned on the tv, I go off the deep end and Budha reins me back in gently. Clearly this woman was insane--what sane mother could so cold-bloodly kill her her own (or any other) children? But to say she didn't know or realize she was doing wrong at the time....Weak, at best. She knew. The manner in which she continued her masacre was no less pre-meditated than that of any other killer.

And her husband ought to be held accountable to a degree. Five children in what, six or seven years? No help whatsoever with them, even after she had had to go on medication for depression. And he 'thought she was cured' so let's have a few more?!?!? Maybe he ought to be examined as well since this appears to me to be a case of delusion (or gross stupidity).

I have children and after the first, I had a mild case of the potpartum 'blues'. I wondered how on earth I was going to care for this tiny baby properly, why did I make this huge decision to have a baby, yadda yadda yadda. I cried and felt very alone. But *never* did the thought of even harming the baby cross my mind. *Never*, even when the kids have tried my patience and it seemed everything was going to hell in a handbasket, did I *Ever* consider harming them (sending them to military school/convent, maybe).

And to hear the lawyers saying she did this because she was trying to save their souls from the devil---don't even get me started. No fan of lawyers already, but this confirms my distaste for the profession. (yeah, I know there are a few good, upstanding ones)

Ok, I'd better step off the soapbox before I really get wound up.

quote:

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Originally posted by Moni:
[img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]
Hiya LoA
You know, in the beginning, I would have been first in line to pull the switch on this b*tch for what she did to her kids, but seeing her husband stick with her without shedding a tear, hearing her tell how her kids struggled without any emotion whatsoever just p*ssed me off to no end...I say let her live, locked up and without the company of her husband beyond visits through a plexiglass wall, give her psychiatric treatment and counseling and lead her around to seeing how horrific what she did was.
Then pull the switch.

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I can understand your point of view Moni, however, I dislike being stuck with the bill for supporting her for the rest of her life. In fairness to the tax payers she should be put out of our misery post haste. The children are beyond caring about vengence and making her pay, we should move on. Now if we had the option of putting her to death in a slow and painful manner.....maybe an overdose of radiation or something equally nasty........

[Ryanamur]

I agree with the life sentence without the death penalty. However, I also think that the schrink who let her loose should have been charged with second degree murder, loose his licence and put away for 40 years. It's just too bad that you can't fry him for that because he's the real danger to society here!

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Ryanamur: I agree with the life sentence without the death penalty. However, I also think that the schrink who let her loose should have been charged with second degree murder, loose his licence and put away for 40 years. It's just too bad that you can't fry him for that because he's the real danger to society here!

Ryanamur, I agree, Unfortunitly a law that would do that would open up a can of worms.

Until I get to be World Emperor, we just got to live with these injustices

Originally posted by Ryanamur: I agree with the life sentence without the death penalty. However, I also think that the schrink who let her loose should have been charged with second degree murder, loose his licence and put away for 40 years. It's just too bad that you can't fry him for that because he's the real danger to society here!

See, the thing is....Andrea Yates never got any real psychological treatment prior to kiling her children. She was depressed and suicidal but no one ever thought she would hurt the kids.
The state may yet charge her husband with Child Endangerment and Negligent Homicide since he was the only person who really had any idea of how sick she was, he was the only person who could pay for her treatment and he was the one who didn't help her and kept having children with her.

MagiK,
Living in Texas, I don't relish the idea of paying for her upkeep either but this woman seriously needs treatment.
I doubt she'll last the full 40 years before she makes parole, being the killer of her own children, but let's at least hope that she does make some headway in getting well and realizes what she has done so that she can ask for forgivness with the full understawnding of her actions before she is taken out of this world.