Free David Hicks

[Yorick]

Originally posted by robertthebard: I'm kinda curious about the torture angle too. If the definition is just that he has been held for 5 years or so w/out a trial, then there is no basis for it. I can tell you from personal experience, 90% of people in prison are innocent, just ask them. .

Wow Robert. A new level.

Mind telling me what he's innocent of?

HE HASN'T BEEN CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME.

and

ACCORDING TO YOUR GOVERNMENT HE'S NOT A PRISONER OF WAR.

Your government cannot under it's own rules, take a man and lock him up for no reason, without charging him with a crime and trying him before a court. Guantanamo Bay is an affront to the ideals America is attempting to spread through the world.

[johnny]

Originally posted by robertthebard: I'm kinda curious about the torture angle too. If the definition is just that he has been held for 5 years or so w/out a trial, then there is no basis for it. I can tell you from personal experience, 90% of people in prison are innocent, just ask them. What he says about his treatment should be taken with a grain of salt. If there was something concrete about torture, then I'd be willing to listen, maybe even dig into it, not that there would be much to find. So far as I can see, he made his bed, and now must lie in it, and it's not sitting well with him.

Since he converted to islam, and, much like his jolly new buddies, probably live to the letter of the koran, i'd say it's more like a ton of salt, seeing as the koran says that it's okay for muslims to lie against infidels.

So yeah, he's probably lying his Christian born ass off, since he is now Muslim, and his childmolesting selfdeclared prophet gave him a written permit to do so a couple of hundred years ago. No jury in the world is going to hold that against him, no sir. [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

This is the full text of the affidavit lodged by Guantanamo Bay detainee David Hicks asserting that he has been tortured during his detention:

DAVID M HICKS, being duly sworn, deposes and says:

1. I am David M Hicks, a Petitioner in the abo e-captioned action, and I make this Affidavit, submitted under seal (*), in support of my of my Amended Complaint, and my applications for injunctive relief.

2. I am a native and citizen of Australia, born in Adelaide August 7, 1975. I have completed the 9th Grade in the Australian school system.

3. This Affidavit provides an outline of the abuse and mistreatment I have received, witnessed, and/or heard about since I have been detained by the United States in Afghanistan, aboard US Naval vessels and US military aircraft, and at the US Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba (hereinafter "Guantanamo Bay"). I have been detained by the United States Armed Forces from December 2001 until present. I arrived in Guantanamo Bay in January 2002. I does not detail all of the abuse I have received, or witnessed, or heard about, but merely sketches some of it. I have been careful to specify what happened to me, what I saw happen to others, and what I have heard about. During the course of my interrogations, I have repeatedly asked for a lawyer and why I am not being treated as Prisoner of War.

4. Since I do not have access to either a typewriter or computer, this Affidavit has been prepared by my attorneys based on information I have provided to them. I have reviewed the Affidavit carefully, and verify that it is completely accurate.

5. I have been beaten before, after, and during interrogations.

6. I have been menaced and threatened, directly and indirectly, with firearms and other weapons before and during interrogations.

7. I have heard beatings of other detainees occurring during interrogations, and observed detainees' injuries that were received during interrogations.

8. I have been beaten while blindfolded and handcuffed.

9. I have been in the company of other detainees who were beaten while blindfolded and handcuffed. At one point, a group of detainees, including myself, were subjected to being randomly hit over a eight hour session while handcuffed and blindfolded.

10. I have been struck with hands, fists, and other objects (including rifle butts). I have also been kicked. I have been hit in the face, head, feet, and torso.

11. I have had my head rammed into asphalt several times (while blindfolded).

12. I have had handcuffs placed on me so tightly, and for so long (as much as 14-15 hours) that my hands were numb for a considerable period thereafter.

13. I have had medication - the identity of which was unknown to me, despite my requests for information - forced upon me against my will. I have been struck while under the influence of sedatives that were forced upon me by injection.

14. I have been forced to run in leg shackles that regularly ripped the skin off my ankles. Many other detainees experienced the same.

15. I have been deprived of sleep as a matter of policy.

16. I have witnessed the activities of the Internal Reaction Force (hereinafter "IRF"), which consists of a squad of soldiers that enter a detainee's cell and brutalize him with the aid of an attack dog. The IRF invasions were so common that the term to be "IRF'd" became part of the language of the detainees. I have seen detainees suffer serious injuries as a result of being IRF'ed. I have seen detainees IRF'ed while they were praying, or for refusing medication.

17. I was told repeatedly that if I cooperated during the course of interrogations, I would be sent home to Australia after the interrogations were concluded. I was told there was an "easy way" and a "hard way" to respond to interrogation.

18. Interrogators once offered me the services of a prostitute for fifteen minutes if I would spy on other detainees. I refused.

19. Failure to cooperate meant the loss of the ordinary necessities of living, such as showers, sufficient food, relief from the prospect of IRF'ing and other regular abuse visited upon non-cooperative detainees, access to reading material, and social contact (including receiving mail).

20. During Ramadan, food was withhold from detainees after the break of the daily fast in order to coerce cooperation with interrogators. Detainees who refused to cooperate were punished regularly, and denied the ordinary necessities of living.

21. I have been told that strobe lights and extreme cold were also used to disorient detainees in order to soften them up for interrogation. I have also heard that religious detainees were exposed to pornography, and were dragged around naked in order to break their will.

22. Detainees were not allowed to know the date, day, year, or time. We were deprived of any and all information and news from the world. Detainees were permitted very little exercise.

23. At one point during 2003 alone, my weight dropped by 30 pounds (and I was not overweight to start).

24. Other detainees also informed me that interrogators attempted to turn them against me by spreading rumors about me. In any event, due to the way interrogations were conducted, and the physical layout of the camps, it was obvious to all of the detainees who was being interrogated, for how long, and whether that detainee emerged abused or not (with the latter signifying cooperation). Thus, any detainee would know who was cooperating with the interrogators.

25. The interrogation process ruled the detention camps and the lives of detainees. Cooperation with interrogators offered the only means of relief from the miserable treatment and abuse the detainees suffered. Those who failed to comply suffered abuse until they gave in.

26. My conditions changed after I was moved to Camp Echo (as did the treatment afforded me by the military personnel on duty there) July 9, 2003, and then again after the visits from my attorneys began. However, at Camp Echo, I have been held in a solitary cell and have been so since arriving at Camp Echo. I was not allowed outside of my cell in Camp Echo for exercise in the sunlight, from July 2003 until March 10, 2004.

27. As noted earlier, the above catalogue of abuse and mistreatment is not complete. It is but a summary of some of the abuse I suffered, witnessed, and/or heard about since my detention began. I would be able to provide further information and detail if the Court so desires, but a complete account would require a substantially longer document. In fact, at my request and due to the persistence of my lawyers, I have recently met with US military investigators conducting the probe into detainee abuse in Afghanistan. Also, this is not the first time I protested my mistreatment, since on several occasions - in Afghanistan, and later at Guantanamo Bay - I informed representatives of the International Red Cross of the abuse.

WHEREFORE, it is respectfully respected that the Court grant the relief sought in my Amended Complaint, and for any such other relief that the Court deems proper.

DAVID M HICKS

Sworn to before me this

5th day of August, 2004.

MD MORI

Major

United States Marine Corps

Judge Advocate

[Yorick]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...701634130.html

I was tortured, says Australian held in Iraq

A SYDNEY man, Ahmed Jamal, imprisoned in northern Iraq for 18 months without charge has told Australian officials he was tortured.

Mr Jamal was finally visited by Australia's consul-general in Iraq, Alan Elliott, on February 27 and found in a distressed state. He said he had been badly mistreated by his captors after his arrest.

His condition was relayed to his father, Mahmoud, and his lawyer, Stephen Kenny, by a consular official based in Canberra, Alex Fraser.

"He has been abused and tortured. Mr Alex told me that he said he has been tortured," Mahmoud Jamal said yesterday. "They told me that he has a lot of rashes on his body and that he has lost his memory … His loss of memory is from torture and electricity."

The Department of Foreign Affairs confirmed that his son said he was tortured but could not comment on the allegation of electrocution.

A spokesman said Mr Jamal asked Australian authorities not to raise his mistreatment with Kurdish authorities in northern Iraq because he feared reprisals.

But he said the Federal Government was pursuing the case, saying it was of "serious concern".

The spokesman also defended the department's inability to visit Mr Jamal for so long, which has enraged his family and Mr Kenny.

The Government found out in November 2004 - after it was informed by the Red Cross - that Mr Jamal, an Australian citizen who was then aged 22, had been detained in northern Iraq for "security-related issues".

He was first detained in September 2004, not long after leaving Australia and telling his family he was visiting the Middle East to find a bride and see the region.

The spokeswoman said "extensive representations" had been made to secure access to Mr Jamal and that logistical issues and a dangerous environment had prevented it from visiting earlier.

But Mr Kenny said this explanation was unacceptable, noting that over the same period scores of dignitaries, including the Prime Minister, had visited Iraq, not to mention executives from AWB.

"The Australian Government has a responsibility to protect Mr Jamal and the length of time they have taken to contact him is of great concern," Mr Kenny said.

"They should have got there much earlier. They failed to protect Mamdouh Habib and David Hicks. Here was a third chance for them to do the right thing."

Mahmoud Jamal said he had been warned that his son may be charged soon for waging jihad.

"This type of young generation, they don't know what they are doing," he said. "He said he would find a beautiful girl but he was tortured and abused."

The Jamal family is no stranger to seeing its members detained on terrorism charges. Ahmed Jamal's older brother, Saleh, is in jail in Lebanon on weapons charges and is accused of plotting terrorist attacks in Lebanon and in Australia.

He escaped from Australia on a false passport while on bail for his alleged role in a drive-by shooting at the Lakemba police station.

Mohammed Omar Jamal, another brother, was arrested in Sydney in December and charged with conspiring to manufacture explosives in preparation for a terrorist act.

The last of the alleged Sydney terrorist cell to be arrested, he allegedly brought large quantities of chemicals which could be used to make a bomb.

A Jamal family member who asked not to be identified further said: "They are treating them like dirt. We are waiting for them to take the other boys as well."

[Yorick]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Global-Te...?oneclick=true

An Australian official stood by and watched while US agents tortured and humiliated Australian terror suspect Mamdouh Habib, a newly released legal document revealed today.

Mr Habib received electric shocks, was beaten, kicked and subjected to water torture at the hands of his American captors, Mr Habib's American lawyer Joe Margulies alleged.

The allegations are contained in an affidavit supporting a restraining order against the US government to prevent Mr Habib being sent from Guantanamo Bay back to custody in Egypt.

Mr Habib, from Sydney, has been imprisoned without charge since he was captured in Pakistan in early October 2001, accused of aiding terrorist network al-Qaeda.

He was held initially in Pakistan before he was sent to Egypt and then to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where another Australian, David Hicks, is also imprisoned.

The affidavit said a man who had previously introduced himself to Mr Habib as an Australian consular official watched while an American agent stood on Mr Habib's neck and had his photograph taken.

Mr Habib was handcuffed throughout the ordeal, which took place at an airfield in Islamabad about October 29, 2001.

"The person with his foot on Mr Habib's neck explained, in unaccented American English, that he planned to send one picture to his girlfriend and another to his sister," it said.

"After this gratuitous photo shoot, they brought Mr Habib to his feet. When they did, Mr Habib saw both the American and Australian men who had been present at (an earlier interrogation)."

Stephen Hopper, Mr Habib's Australian lawyer, said the affidavit was proof the Australian government was aware Mr Habib was tortured and mistreated.

"It's absolutely disgraceful," Mr Hopper said.

"Any Australian citizen cannot be tortured that way, and to stand by and watch Americans or persons from any nationality do that to an Australian citizen is just unacceptable.

"What this indicates is that the Australian government officials have been engaged in crimes against humanity."

After his detainment in Pakistan, Mr Habib was flown to Egypt at the end of October 2001 and imprisoned there for just under six months.

During that time, he was subjected to horrific torture by his captors, the affidavit revealed.

"Mr Habib, always handcuffed and sometimes suspended from hooks on the wall, was kicked, punched, beaten with a stick, and rammed with what can only be described as an electric cattle prod," it said.

"If he lapsed into unconsciousness, they would revive him and continue the beatings."

Amid the torture, Mr Habib said he was forced into false confessions, such as admitting to training al-Qaeda fighters in martial arts, despite only holding a yellow belt.

The affidavit said the Egyptian authorities were particularly brutal towards
Mr Habib and would place him in one of three rooms and gradually fill it with water, leaving only his head exposed and forced him to stand on tiptoe for hours.

He was also threatened with German shepherd dogs.

Comment was being sought from Attorney-General Philip Ruddock.

[Yorick]

Three Australians all alleging the US government used torture!!

Oh hey, but I guess they're liars just like those at Abu Ghraib RIGHT!!

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Yorick: This is the full text of the affidavit lodged by Guantanamo Bay detainee David Hicks asserting that he has been tortured during his detention: DAVID M HICKS, being duly sworn, deposes and says: 1. I am David M Hicks, a Petitioner in the abo e-captioned action, and I make this Affidavit, submitted under seal (*), in support of my of my Amended Complaint, and my applications for injunctive relief. 2. I am a native and citizen of Australia, born in Adelaide August 7, 1975. I have completed the 9th Grade in the Australian school system. 3. This Affidavit provides an outline of the abuse and mistreatment I have received, witnessed, and/or heard about since I have been detained by the United States in Afghanistan, aboard US Naval vessels and US military aircraft, and at the US Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba (hereinafter "Guantanamo Bay"). I have been detained by the United States Armed Forces from December 2001 until present. I arrived in Guantanamo Bay in January 2002. I does not detail all of the abuse I have received, or witnessed, or heard about, but merely sketches some of it. I have been careful to specify what happened to me, what I saw happen to others, and what I have heard about. During the course of my interrogations, I have repeatedly asked for a lawyer and why I am not being treated as Prisoner of War. 4. Since I do not have access to either a typewriter or computer, this Affidavit has been prepared by my attorneys based on information I have provided to them. I have reviewed the Affidavit carefully, and verify that it is completely accurate. 5. I have been beaten before, after, and during interrogations. 6. I have been menaced and threatened, directly and indirectly, with firearms and other weapons before and during interrogations. 7. I have heard beatings of other detainees occurring during interrogations, and observed detainees' injuries that were received during interrogations. 8. I have been beaten while blindfolded and handcuffed. 9. I have been in the company of other detainees who were beaten while blindfolded and handcuffed. At one point, a group of detainees, including myself, were subjected to being randomly hit over a eight hour session while handcuffed and blindfolded. 10. I have been struck with hands, fists, and other objects (including rifle butts). I have also been kicked. I have been hit in the face, head, feet, and torso. 11. I have had my head rammed into asphalt several times (while blindfolded). 12. I have had handcuffs placed on me so tightly, and for so long (as much as 14-15 hours) that my hands were numb for a considerable period thereafter. 13. I have had medication - the identity of which was unknown to me, despite my requests for information - forced upon me against my will. I have been struck while under the influence of sedatives that were forced upon me by injection. 14. I have been forced to run in leg shackles that regularly ripped the skin off my ankles. Many other detainees experienced the same. 15. I have been deprived of sleep as a matter of policy. 16. I have witnessed the activities of the Internal Reaction Force (hereinafter "IRF"), which consists of a squad of soldiers that enter a detainee's cell and brutalize him with the aid of an attack dog. The IRF invasions were so common that the term to be "IRF'd" became part of the language of the detainees. I have seen detainees suffer serious injuries as a result of being IRF'ed. I have seen detainees IRF'ed while they were praying, or for refusing medication. 17. I was told repeatedly that if I cooperated during the course of interrogations, I would be sent home to Australia after the interrogations were concluded. I was told there was an "easy way" and a "hard way" to respond to interrogation. 18. Interrogators once offered me the services of a prostitute for fifteen minutes if I would spy on other detainees. I refused. 19. Failure to cooperate meant the loss of the ordinary necessities of living, such as showers, sufficient food, relief from the prospect of IRF'ing and other regular abuse visited upon non-cooperative detainees, access to reading material, and social contact (including receiving mail). 20. During Ramadan, food was withhold from detainees after the break of the daily fast in order to coerce cooperation with interrogators. Detainees who refused to cooperate were punished regularly, and denied the ordinary necessities of living. 21. I have been told that strobe lights and extreme cold were also used to disorient detainees in order to soften them up for interrogation. I have also heard that religious detainees were exposed to pornography, and were dragged around naked in order to break their will. 22. Detainees were not allowed to know the date, day, year, or time. We were deprived of any and all information and news from the world. Detainees were permitted very little exercise. 23. At one point during 2003 alone, my weight dropped by 30 pounds (and I was not overweight to start). 24. Other detainees also informed me that interrogators attempted to turn them against me by spreading rumors about me. In any event, due to the way interrogations were conducted, and the physical layout of the camps, it was obvious to all of the detainees who was being interrogated, for how long, and whether that detainee emerged abused or not (with the latter signifying cooperation). Thus, any detainee would know who was cooperating with the interrogators. 25. The interrogation process ruled the detention camps and the lives of detainees. Cooperation with interrogators offered the only means of relief from the miserable treatment and abuse the detainees suffered. Those who failed to comply suffered abuse until they gave in. 26. My conditions changed after I was moved to Camp Echo (as did the treatment afforded me by the military personnel on duty there) July 9, 2003, and then again after the visits from my attorneys began. However, at Camp Echo, I have been held in a solitary cell and have been so since arriving at Camp Echo. I was not allowed outside of my cell in Camp Echo for exercise in the sunlight, from July 2003 until March 10, 2004. 27. As noted earlier, the above catalogue of abuse and mistreatment is not complete. It is but a summary of some of the abuse I suffered, witnessed, and/or heard about since my detention began. I would be able to provide further information and detail if the Court so desires, but a complete account would require a substantially longer document. In fact, at my request and due to the persistence of my lawyers, I have recently met with US military investigators conducting the probe into detainee abuse in Afghanistan. Also, this is not the first time I protested my mistreatment, since on several occasions - in Afghanistan, and later at Guantanamo Bay - I informed representatives of the International Red Cross of the abuse. WHEREFORE, it is respectfully respected that the Court grant the relief sought in my Amended Complaint, and for any such other relief that the Court deems proper. DAVID M HICKS Sworn to before me this 5th day of August, 2004. MD MORI Major United States Marine Corps Judge Advocate

I challenge any American here to sit there and tell me this is the way to treat a human being. That these are the ideals your men and women have fought trying to protect!

TELL ME.

[johnny]

Originally posted by Yorick: Three Australians all alleging the US government used torture!! Oh hey, but I guess they're liars just like those at Abu Ghraib RIGHT!!

Three VERY reliable sources i have to add. Do you actually believe the words of terrorists, or at least wannabe terrorists ? Have you seen the other charges the first one was confronted with ? He's a crook, and since when has the word of a crook any value ?

And besides, they are not Australians, two of them are Lebanese born, and seem to have but one interrest, to undermine Australian society, and the other is a stinking rat, who chose to turn on his fellow countrymen, and voluntarily live in a dusty cave in the middle of nowhere with the other rats, where they could quietly plot the end of the world as we know it. Excuse me for not crying a river for the loss of so many of your valuable countrymen.

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: Originally posted by robertthebard: [qb] If he's a prisoner of war, America has trampled all over the Geneva convention. Why? Because he hasn't been released? Because he hasn't had a trial?

Because along with the other "enemy combatants" he's been tortured and given treatment it's been legally agreed P.O.W.s are not to receive. [/QUOTE]Like you said - PROVE IT!

Just because someone CLAIMS that something happened doesn't mean it did. I mean after all aren't YOU arguing the same for David Hicks Innocence?

You same MORE than willing to give HIM the benefit of the doubt, I would think you MIGHT consider doing the same for BOTH sides.

Let me say this AGAIN, since OBVIOUSLY you still do NOT get it.

Since Hicks is NOT a POW, he is NOT subject to rules of the Geneva Convention, GET IT! You may not like that, it may indeed be cruel, and no way to true a human being, but it's NOT against the Geneva Convention because Hicks isn't a POW. So quit telling me that the US is trampling on the Geneva Convention, 'cuz THAT IS NOT TRUE.

Now that we have THAT out of the way. Why is it that YOU are so darn convinced that this is guy is lily white innocent? Just because he's Australian? He has a history of entering armed conflict in the support of the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. He was captured with Taliban forces in Kunduz, and in a combat zone. He has provided support for terrorists.


Like I said, before - forget it. You are totally convinced that this guy is as pure as the driven snow, and are blind to any other possibility. This guy made his bed and now he can sleep in it. Go complain to the Aussie government. Ask you self why THEY won't help him? Might be some truth to the charges, maybe?

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally posted by johnny: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: Three Australians all alleging the US government used torture!! Oh hey, but I guess they're liars just like those at Abu Ghraib RIGHT!!

Three VERY reliable sources i have to add. Do you actually believe the words of terrorists, or at least wannabe terrorists ? Have you seen the other charges the first one was confronted with ? He's a crook, and since when has the word of a crook any value ?

And besides, they are not Australians, two of them are Lebanese born, and seem to have but one interrest, to undermine Australian society, and the other is a stinking rat, who chose to turn on his fellow countrymen, and voluntarily live in a dusty cave in the middle of nowhere with the other rats, where they could quietly plot the end of the world as we know it. Excuse me for not crying a river for the loss of so many of your valuable countrymen. [/QUOTE]Thank you johnny. At least SOMEBODY sees the inherent problem in blindly accepting those three claims at face value.

@Yorick - And along those same lines, weren't you just arguing that David Hicks deserves his day in court? Innocent before proven guilty? WHY don't you grant the US the same privlege before condemning them out of hand for ALLLEGED atrocities?

Let's see, USA is guilty of war crimes based on three unproven affadavits; David Hicks is innocent because you say so. Yep, that's the sort of logic that compells me to accept your argument.

I believe that the important point is; "Fair and equal treatment under the law." How can you argue for it, if you don't believe it or apply it yourself?

[ 11-26-2006, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Micah Foehammer ]