Question about Evolution/Creationism etc.

Once again I just wanted to poiint out that the thread was not a debate of creationism vs evolution...it was a question about where all the newly evolved creatures might be hiding [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

Well, once we can actually put something down there that will resist the pressure, the deep sea will probably yield some interesting specimens.

[Yorick]

Firstly Michael, it's a pseudonym. So I don't see why you'd object to Mike. People call me Yorrick (two "R"s all the time and I don't give a hoot.) Secondly it's a self styled "sir" so don't expect me to call you "sir".

Regarding the issue, it amazes me that you attempt to dismiss optimism with naivety. Well I'm sorry Mr. Realist, but your pessimism is naive. Pessimism is a choice, and is choosing to restrict ones focus to the comparitively small amount of negativity in our lives. Optimism is also a choice and involves both larger and smaller perspective, and sees the countless positives that fill our lives every day.

In your post you rattle off all the problems of the world, yet don't even acknowledge the birth of a baby in your city, or the flowering of a plant.

It's easy to criticise. It's easy to notice what you don't have. Our culture is geared towards deification of rarity. We see it in the news, in wages, in supply and demand laws of capitalism.

It's much harder to focus on what you have rather than what you've lost don't or may lose.

This doesn't mean not working for peace or environmental causes. I contribute to Greenpeace, I have a sponsor Child in Guatemala, I work for my Church in an effort to improve peoples emotional wellbeing. Out of care. Out of thanks for what I have got. Deep deep unabiding wordless thanks to the one who gave me life, health, perspective, and peace. Joy.

This is not naivety as you so casually dismissed. Yet again you attempt cheap shots. Insults.

You say if science teaches you anything, it's that humanity doesn't have all the answers.

Well what do you think theological faith does?

Science is the pursuit of knowledge for it's own end. Faith involves pursuit of knowledge as a means to an end.

The "fears" you have for the remnants of nature are part of the human condition, and the reason why I have so much hope for the future. Cultures in the past have respected balance with nature. It's not insane to suggest this may not be the case again. I do know that to achieve those ends, proactivity is a stronger force though.

Finally, it's not a mistake to debate this on the net. That's the beauty of the net. "None of us are going to change anyones belief" echos your pessimism. You defeat yourself without an attempt.

How will you know? The influence of one human on another can be profound, can effect change years from the exchange of ideas, and may never be seen in the person who initiated the change.

How will you know?

Additionally is that your only aim? Is not a better aim, "what new understanding will I get from these guys?" That is the "open mind" you are speaking of yet not displaying. Debate is not always about changing anyone elses beliefs, but often about STRENGTHENING YOUR OWN.

Originally posted by Sir Michael: [QB][/QB]

*snip*

Great stuff,
Oh and I’m not sure if china should really be applauded for their one child policy as it has turned out,
While it *is* a very good idea,
In practice as the communist Chinese do it this includes forced abortions at up to 9 months of pregnancy, which is not something that many people would approve of I think, as by this time the foetus can survive outside the womb and has fully developed.

Oh yes, and I’m not actually sure if the resources will run out, because as oil becomes more valuable & our technology gets better the more inaccessible deposits will become worthwhile to extract, already we have access to about another 100 years worth at least. And when the oil does begin to run out, economic imperative will force us to change to another thing, it happened with whale oil, and I believe it will happen again with fossil fuels.

Originally posted by Yorick: Well what do you think theological faith does?

Promotes Irrefutable Dogma and A Closed Mind?

[Sir Michael]

It was last March, Magik, 2001...not this year.

Yorik, people have bestowed upon themselved the titles of gods or saints on this board, and you have no trouble using their handles, so why not add "Sir" to mine?

Like I said, I don't hate the human race, and I can see all the positives, like the little bunnies hopping around and the birdies chirping in the trees and so on, but I can also see the problems. And, yes, I do have an idea of how big the country is...do you guys know just how small the world is??? I think it is really just a problem of perspective...humans in general are wrapped up in their own, petty little lives (me included), that there is no global space or future time oriented viewpoint.

That's cool that you contribute to GreenPeace and so on, but what else are you doing? Is everyone doing those things? Again, we have the luxury in this country to care about the environment and humanity because we have a lot of money and time on our hands. We are only 5% of the population. Does the rest of the world care?

I think your rebuttals are very well worded, and contain many valid points, and I didn't intend it as a "cheap shot" by calling you a naive optimist, any more than you intended it as a cheap shot calling me a pessimist, I am sure.

I have nothing to learn from this debate...I am just talking. I have been around religion enough in my life to know it has nothing to offer me, and as long as others don't insist on pushing their beliefs on me, I have no problems with it. Perhaps in that respect, I am not as open-minded as I thought.

Incidentally, I have heard different points of view on the oil issue...some think we will run out in 10 years, others in 100. I was going to say I wish we would run out, but the alternative (coal) is even more polluting to the environment, and there are no other real alternatives.

[Sir Michael]

You're a braver man than I, saying that to this crowd, Dramnek_Ulk.

Of course, what impression are we supposed to get, with religious zealots like Jack Chick and that schmuck who wrote the Mac tracts (see the other threads) around?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Sir Michael: And, yes, I do have an idea of how big the country is...do you guys know just how small the world is??? I think it is really just a problem of perspective...humans in general are wrapped up in their own, petty little lives (me included), that there is no global space or future time oriented viewpoint..

Well now here's the thing. Last year I travelled a lot. Well, all year. I'm from Sydney, Australia and have ended up settling down in New York. I can tell you that travel does two things. It at once both shrinks the world and enlarges it.

The world is very small compared to the sun. It is also very large compared to bacteria. It all depends on your point of reference. I would not call the earth small, nor large unless using it in either context. Compared to me it is large.

So the earth is huge.

But I can talk to someone from the other side of the planet. So the earth is small.

This is what I mean about true perspecting allowing total sight. Not just seeing one side of a situation.

I disagree with your statement that all humans are "wrapped in their own petty little lives". It's a harsh statement for one.

What else has a person than their own experience. Of course survival and the immediate surroundings are going to take focal precedent. Why wouldn't they? Why be harshly judgemental about that? For someone critical of organised religion you seem to have picked up it's worst quality

Secondly there are many many people who sacrifice their own needs for those of others. Care and aid workers in the inner cities and war zones, religious instructors, certain medical professionals (outside the lucrative US of course ) certain types of teaching professionals, Mothers.....

It depends who you're looking at.

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Arledrian: It's a relatively new religion, about 150 years old, and it maintains the belief that all of the world's so called 'founders of religion' (Krishna, Zoroastro, Buddha, Christ, Muhammad, Il Bab and Bahaullah) are actually all messengers from the same God. I've found a few minor flaws here and there, or at least parts to the religion that aren't properly explained, but it certainly has a few interesting and quite revolutionary ideas [img]smile.gif[/img] www.bahai.org[/QB]

All messengers from the same god. Well, without having read the other four pages of this thread (sorry, very bad! [img]smile.gif[/img] I would have to agree, although my terminology would be a little different. I think I'd rather put it as 'tapping into the same divine source. Seems obvious to me! Religions that yell about there only be one true god, and that god is their god, come across as childish and ridiculous, not to mention dangerously divisive. Either there is one god, or there isn't. And if there is, stands to reason that everybody's worshipping the same one, just calling it/he/she whatever (gender is also ridiculous when applied to 'god') by different names. What's so hard about that?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: Well what do you think theological faith does?

Promotes Irrefutable Dogma and A Closed Mind?[/QUOTE]Er... wrong. If anything that would be organised religion, not theological faith. There is a big difference.

I'd class this post as flamebait Dramnek. Yet again another ignorant attempt at insulting those with faith.

It is against the TOC you know.