Party casters - comments needed

[Gimli]

Hi again - I planned three fighting type characters already - thanks to all that helped out with their comments. That thread is over here:

http://feedback.blackisle.com/forum...&threadid=58437

I changed my mind about having either 2 specialist Wizards or a Wizard and Sorcerer. Since there aren't enough scrolls for 2 Wizards, that choice was out. Also I'll try a Sorcerer if I play a second time and know which spells I want learn, for the first time through I am going with a generalist Wizard to be able to try them all out. And Gimble's party thread has made me really want a Bard, so that will be my choice instead of a second Wizard or a Sorcerer.

Work has delayed me, but I think I have plans for the 3 casting types ready and want to see what everyone thinks. Here goes:

Human Bard:

St: 10
Dx: 12
Co: 14
In: 12
Wi: 10
Ch: 18

Level-up ability points will go into Charisma.

Feats:

Level Feat
1 GSF Enchantment
3 Lingering Song
6 Subvocal Casting
9 Luck of Heroes
12 Spell Penetration
15 ???? (any suggestions?)

Skills - will try to keep Bluff and Concentration maxed out. Undecided for the extra skill points, am considering Use Magic Device (but I have a Rogue-type who will have it already), Pick Pocket, Hide/Move Silently or Alchemy. Am leaning towards Pick Pocket just because no one else in the group will have it.

The Bard will also be the secondary party leader, I will use her when the Paladin would turn down rewards or generally where I think Bluff might work out better than Diplomacy.

Strongheart Halfling Wizard (generalist):

St: 8
Dx: 20
Co: 16
In: 18
Wi: 10
Ch: 4

Level up ability points will go into Int.

Feats:

Level Feat
1 GSF, Evocation; SF Transmutation
3 GSF, Transmutation
6 Subvocal Casting
9 Spirit of Flame
12 Aqua Mortis
15 Spell Penetration

Skills - will try to keep Concentration, Alchemy and Spellcraft maxed out. Will go for Hide and Move Silently as cross class skills (am going to ignore Knowledge Arcana since I have the Bard).

I see this character from a role playing point of view as having been maimed in a fire as a youth (hence the low Cha) and who becomes fascinated with controlling it as an adult - he'll love fire based spells above all else, but will have acid and transmutation types to fall back on for those enemies who can resist fire.

Wild Elf Cleric (Morninglord of Lathander):

St: 12
Dx: 12
Co: 16
In: 8
Wi: 18
Ch: 12

Level up ability points will go into Wisdom.

Feats:

Level Feat
1 Weapon Focus: Bow
3 Combat Casting
6 Subvocal Casting
9 ???
12 ???
15 ???

I am very undecided as to which feats to take. I see him using the bow alot; also casting healing spells in the middle of melees, so the combat casting could be really useful. Other than those though I am undecided - are any spell focuses good for Clerics? Was thinking of maybe going for SF/GSF in Evocation as some of Lathander's offensive spells are nice, then Spell Penetration at 15th. Any other ideas?

I chose Lathander for the free improved turning feat, and because I think the domain spells looked the best to me. Also wanted a good aligned cleric so I won't have to take healing spells when I rest. I like the Wild Elf as a race as the -2 Int is no problem, the +2 Dex is nice, but also to get the free Bow feat.

Skills - will keep concentration maxed out.

So the finished party would end up looking like this:

1/2 Orc Barbarian(X)/Fighter(4)
Tiefling Rogue(X)/Fighter(2)/Ranger(1)
Aasimar Paladin(X)/Fighter(8)
Wild Elf Cleric, Morninglord of Lathander
Strongheart Halfling Wizard, generalist
Human Bard

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me! =)

[Night Stalker]

Looks pretty balanced. You might want a second char with healing capabilities though - multi your bard to a lvl or 2 of cleric/druid. Your Paladin will be to involved in combat.

My party is abit more cross-skilled/ magic heavy

W Elf Ranger (maybe Rouge 3)
Human Fighter
Aasimar Paladin of Ilmater/Painmaster of Ilmater (x/5)
Tiefling Rouge X /Enchanter 5
Drow Evoker
W Elf Druid/Sorcerer

I know I'm not quite following my own advice about the Paladin, but the party was already started before I started this plan and I don't really have other clerical candidates. Then again, the extra castors are a big combat multiplier.

[Magness]

Actually, bards can select some decent healing spells. They may not be quite the healer of a cleric, but better than nothing. Also, once a bard reaches level 11, they get a healing song that's really great after you get out of battle.

[Grishnakh]

Honestly I never understood what is so great in a bard. I never use this class because i find it useless. Better have a real rogue or cleric in your party rather than a bard.
My party is
Paladin(Lv.13) Aasimar
Figther (Lv.14) Dwarf
Battleguard of Tempus (Lv.14) Human
Monk (Lv.13) Tiefling
Rogue (Lv.13) Tiefling
Sorcerer (Lv.14) Wood Elf.
and i must say that I don't have many problems through this game. Only 3-4 fights were more difficult. Only one regret: i didn't knew that a monk requires a high strenght so I gave him at the beginning only 15, but he'll live.

[Gimli]

Well I do have both a Cleric and Rogue in the group, so taking another in favor of the bard for me would not make sense. Why the Bard, well you can stack the effects of bard songs, they are the only ones that can use the bard instruments as well, plus they get spells. Also I switched mine over to a Moon Elf and bumped up Dex, will also take bow feats to make him a really good archer. Bardic knowledge means I can ignore the knowledge skill with my Wizard, plus he's a secondary leader-type to my paladin who uses bluff instead of diplomacy (and will accept rewards). But mainly to make the rest of the party better is why I choose one, that's the beauty and power of the bard songs.

There is a great thread here that made me take the Bard, I also looked at it at first and was going to pass it over (in favor of another caster like a wizard or sorcerer), but this changed my mind:

http://feedback.blackisle.com/forums...threadid=53225

Really between our parties the difference is you've got a Monk instead of a Bard, so we think pretty much alike otherwise (I finally made them this morning and started playing them, they are kicking some tail):

Paladin(Lv.13) Aasimar --------> Paladin(X)/Fighter(8) Aasimar
Figther (Lv.14) Dwarf --------> Barbarian(X)/Fighter(4) 1/2 Orc
Battleguard of Tempus (Lv.14) Human --> Morninglord of Lathander, Gold Dwarf
Monk (Lv.13) Tiefling --------> Bard, Moon Elf
Rogue (Lv.13) Tiefling --------> Rogue(X)/Fighter(2)/Ranger(1) Tiefling
Sorcerer (Lv.14) Wood Elf. --------> Wizard, Strongheart Halfling

[ 09-21-2002, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Gimli ]

[Gimli]

Also one other post I found that sums up the Bard's value:

"The bard is a jack-of-all-trades and a master of none. Unfortunately, this situation has caused many to write off the bard, thinking that his lack of mastery makes him a party liability. This cannot be farther from the truth, as a bard is extremely useful. Think of him as the ultimate sixth man, who can pitch hit for any other character. Did your fighter just get helded by a spell? No problem, the bard can don a shield and brandish a longsword to hold the orcs back while the fighter gets attended to. Did your druid run out of healing spells? No problem, the bard can magically heal as well. Did your wizard go out for the count? Well, a bardic sleep spell could just save the day.

You get the picture. Not only that, because of their social skills and need for high charisma, bards make excellent leaders. Plus, they have the unique ability to play songs, which provide a host of magical abilities that often cannot be duplicated by spells. Lastly, bard casts spells like a sorceror, that is, they can cast any spell they know on the fly! This is a very nice ability that should not be overlooked. So, before you dismiss the bard, remember that this is probably the most versatile class in the game."

From Green Lantern over on the Black Isle board.

[Gimli]

PPS - I'm not saying that the Monk is a bad choice BTW, I am just sticking up for my Bard [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Alaric]

In addition to the feats that you have indicated, the wizard also gets additional bonus feat at fifth level and every five levels afterwards. I know this is not mentioned in the manual but this feature is in the game.

[ 09-21-2002, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Alaric ]

[Gimli]

Woo hoo!! 5th/10th I'll probably go for SF/GSF Enchantment then; and at 15th greater spell penetration. Was wondering if they got the free feats (noticed I had an extra one at 1st). Thanks Alaric!

[Ladyzekke]

I've never used a Bard before, first time ever (I'm a Paladin person, but this game choose a Bard in place of my Paly). So far so good, will be interested to see if I can get through the game with my particular party.

Which is, btw:

Barbarian - Half Orc
Ranger - Half-Elf
Cleric - Human
Rogue - Halfling (Strongheart)
Wizard - Mon-Elf
Bard - Half-Elf

Am I too elf heavy LOL?