.44 or .50??

[Morgan_Corbesant]

nothing beats a good ole Heckler and Koch USP .40!!! IMHO anyway.

Originally posted by Alexander: I guess I'll never understand the strange human fascination with instruments of death. Just my 2 cents, not trying to start an argument here.

Explain the human fascination with any item, tool or toy. The way you wrote it it sounded you were just begging someone to come and start an argument. Guns by the way ARE not soley instruments of death. Actually I haven't killed anyone or anything in over a year with my guns...unless you count paper targets and soda cans as killing.

Originally posted by John D Harris: quote: Originally posted by norompanlasolas: im not going to get in a discussion on guns, firstly because this isnt the thread for it, and secondly because its not worth it. it has striked me as really funny, though, and raised my curiosity, to see how many gun owners and gun "experts" are here on this forum (pretty much everybody above 25 years old i think). being a dungeonsanddragons, a roleplaying forum... one has to wonder if its because of reading a lot of rulebooks, or of actual experience. if it is because of real experience and love for guns, its even more amazing. i never thought so many people loved guns, had guns and shot them regularly. i dunno, maybe its different over here in spain, or i hang out with the wrong group of friends. the only guns i get to see are in hands of the police, and a dreadful sight it is (so you can understand, a lot of my friends are what you would call squatters, or okupas as called here).

1967, I was in 1st grade first ime I fired a gun, 410 shotgun, knocked me on my butt.
For me a gun in the hands of the police is only scary if you're looking down the barrel, Been there done that.[/QUOTE]I said I shot a shotgun in 1970 at the age of 8 [img]smile.gif[/img] It was a double barrel 12 gauge with dual hammers, I pulled both triggers at once [img]smile.gif[/img]
If my dad weren't behind me holding me Id have gone flying [img]smile.gif[/img] After that I have the affinity for 12 guage, never liked 20's and the 16's have been discontinued.

Originally posted by Neb: quote: Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: ?

Ah, well, let me present you with a few questions. Have you ever considered that when it's easier for YOU to buy a weapon, it's also easier for the people that you want to defend yourself against to buy a weapon? Oh and in a LOT of countries where it is FAR less easy to acquire a gun the murder rate is quite a bit lower. You really don't need an actual gun to defend yourself, just a fake, point it at whatever idiots are threatening you and they'll quite probably run. And if they don't, if they decide to attack you, you'd be screwed even if you had a real gun, because they'll probably be more than you. And they've bought their guns just as easily as you bought yours.

Let me add another point, if someone breaks into your house and you pull a gun and shoot at them. Won't that make them more likely to shoot back than if you didn't bother them? Material things are only worth so much, if someone broke into my house while I was home I'd hide somewhere and let them take what they wanted. Material things can be replaced, you can't replace yourself if some burglar fights back and puts a bullet through your skull or knife through your chest to save himself from being shot by you.[/QUOTE]Actually Neb I believe you are wrong. Only the legal gun owners have to obey the laws, the people who don't give a sh*% about the law buy them on the streets. The guns will still be available to them even if you outlaw them, hell cocaine, heroin, crack and marijuana are illegal and people have NO problem getting them. Prohibition just does not work. And if EVERY body had guns the likelyhood of anyone trying to hold up a store would be reletively low because the thief would never know which one of the citizens behind him might take him out. An armed society is a polite society.

Think about it a bit...it is already a crime to use a gun to commit a crime..do you think one morelaw is going to make a difference? Murder is already a crime, yet every country has them commited, even ones where there are no guns. Laws only hinder those who obey the law...and make lawyers rich...other than that it wouldnt stop the thugs from aquiring them.

[ 04-28-2002, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by *\Conan/*: quote: .

Neb, not a good idea...people have tried that and have ended up dead for it. If you pull a gun on someone it better be real and you had better know how to use it.
450 or so people die in one year just in the DC. from gunshot wounds. The latest thing the scumbags are doing now is breaking into peoples houses while they are still home. Yes, while they are home! They will shoot you for the jacket off your back...and for nothing but a 20$ bill.
This is a generation of live for the minute punks, preying on anyone, anywhere and not caring about the concequences. If you lived in a violent place you may understand a little better. I think homeland security is a good idea as long as it doesn't get carried away. The sad part about it is that say someone does break into your home and you have set snares to entangle him, he gets diabled on your property, your in for a law suit. Kinda set up to punish you. So I say dont let them walk out alive to do it again. That sounds cold but its the truth. These people are desperate and have no problems capping you in the process. The penaltys have no impact on in their thought process and they do not value life what-so-ever. Its like a family reunion when they get arrested so they just keep going. Sometimes posing as utility workers, policemen or cable workers.

Our veiws on this may be different and I understand what your saying. But I for one will at least be prepared to counter somehow. If it comes to taking someone down with me then so be it sadly enough.[/QUOTE]To be fair, they don't always use handguns, some of the recent breakins, they beat the older people to death with baseball bats....Im pretty sure no one is trying to outlaw those though....I live near DC too [img]smile.gif[/img] There are so many murders committed and a good percentage of them are done without the use of firearms. But the best defense is a handgun and the knowledge and experience to use it.

Originally posted by Epona: quote:

You're right about the laws here Dramnek - very tight. I've never even shot a gun - although I'd love to give it a go, I was always a good shot with the air-rifle I had as a kid lol - although for some reason me doing target practise in the back garden always used to freak out my neighbours [img]tongue.gif[/img] - I actually used to use the thing mostly to scare cats out of the garden (and no, I never shot one, but a carefully aimed pellet on the metal fencepost 2" below said cat's ass convinced it to stop crapping in the flowerbeds lol)

Interesting about the gun-laws though - because OK it's difficult to get a gun, but plenty of the drug-gangs round here find it easy enough - so the people most likely to go shoot someone still have easy access.

In fact my district hospital (in Hackney) treats more gunshot wounds a year than get seen in the most violent area of Soweto. So there you go.[/qb][/QUOTE]Thats the rpoblem with drugs, guns and any other contraband item, tough laws make it hard for honest decent citizens to obtain the items, but the criminals get them quite easily on the black market.
It would only take 30 or 40 minutes to go out and get a gun on the street...but I wouldnt try it due to the nature of the people you would have to deal with.

[ 04-28-2002, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by John D Harris: quote: Originally posted by norompanlasolas: im not going to get in a discussion on guns, firstly because this isnt the thread for it, and secondly because its not worth it. it has striked me as really funny, though, and raised my curiosity, to see how many gun owners and gun "experts" are here on this forum (pretty much everybody above 25 years old i think). being a dungeonsanddragons, a roleplaying forum... one has to wonder if its because of reading a lot of rulebooks, or of actual experience. if it is because of real experience and love for guns, its even more amazing. i never thought so many people loved guns, had guns and shot them regularly. i dunno, maybe its different over here in spain, or i hang out with the wrong group of friends. the only guns i get to see are in hands of the police, and a dreadful sight it is (so you can understand, a lot of my friends are what you would call squatters, or okupas as called here).

1967, I was in 1st grade first ime I fired a gun, 410 shotgun, knocked me on my butt.
For me a gun in the hands of the police is only scary if you're looking down the barrel, Been there done that.[/QUOTE]I said I shot a shotgun in 1970 at the age of 8 [img]smile.gif[/img] It was a double barrel 12 gauge with dual hammers, I pulled both triggers at once [img]smile.gif[/img]
If my dad weren't behind me holding me Id have gone flying [img]smile.gif[/img] After that I have the affinity for 12 guage, never liked 20's and the 16's have been discontinued.[/QUOTE]Both triggers at once! How many years before you could use your arm
A 12 gauge is a heck of a wallop for a 8 yearold first time.
I have an affinity for 12 gauge autos I went shooting with my brother, and tried his 12 gauge auto, I was used to my Rem 870 pump. His auto's trigger takes a lot less to pull. He threw the can, I raised the auto, and as I was bringing it into my shoulder (like I would with my Rem 870) I started to squeeze the trigger (just enough to feel the trigger on my 870), I fired it with about 1" of space between my shoulder and the stock. I thought I'd damn near knocked my arm off. After words he says "OH yeah thats got a hair trigger". Meanwhile I'm there with my right arm dangling, and every nerve in my shoulder screaming at my brain "What the Hell did you just do to us".
Brothers can't live with'em, can't shoot'em.

[ 04-28-2002, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]

[Avatar]

I bet I'm more accurate with a bow Actually seriously, would u be more accurate with an arrow?

Can you shoot 10 (bullseyes) consistantly with a handgun being Olympic standard skill wise, at 90yards (80 meters)?

[MILAMBER]

Originally posted by Avatar: I bet I'm more accurate with a bow Actually seriously, would u be more accurate with an arrow? Can you shoot 10 (bullseyes) consistantly with a handgun being Olympic standard skill wise, at 90yards (80 meters)?

90 yards? No. Hand guns weren't designed for that range.

Give me a rifle and you're done.

[cemius]

I own one of the older DE .357 mag. It is quite an awesome gun, but not very practical for carring as personal defense. If you are really wanting to get one of the larger calibers why not buy the less expensive .44 mag. then purchase the interchangable 50 AE barrel and magazine. Then you have essentially two different guns.

For home defense theres nothing like the sound of silence being interupted by the racking of a good Mossberg 12 gauge.