Banning Flag Burning

[Bardan the Slayer]

Originally posted by WillowIX: quote: Originally posted by Attalus: I always say that banning flag burning is not the answer, as it is clearly unconstituional, but punching the flag-burner in the nose is. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I never really understood why flag burning is considered an atrocity. It is after all a piece of cloth and some people have way too much time on their hands. They know you will react and therefore they do it. Should everyone suddenly start to ignore flag burning this would no longer be an issue. Now burning straw figurines of leaders is another thing.

I like pritschkes idea! I know several hospital board members that could use a pie. [/QUOTE]For some reason, many Americans have a profound attachment to their flag - they seem to think it represents everything the country was intended to be - a bastion of freedom. It's completely beyond me (and inhabitants of virtually any other country, by the looks of it) why a piece of cloth should be imbued with such symbolism, but no doubt many would say thwe same of the UK and the Monarchy.

Each to his own, i guess.

On the matter of making it illegal? I tend to agree with TL and the others. I mean, what's next? Anyone who says "America stinks!" on the street is arrested? It's a little too paranoid-seeming to me.

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by Paladin2000: Well... the flag is the symbol which represents a country/state/orginazation. Burning the flag is a symbolic gesture that you want to set the country/state/organization to flame. Sort of anyway, I am not a flag burner and I could only guess the true motive. But if a person took your picture and burn it in front of you, would you be pissed off? I think most of us will. That is why flag burning is seen as a grave insult to the recipient.

Really? Comparing the burning of a picture with falg burning isn't really the same you know (see what I posted above). One is a personal threat whereas the other, well according to your post, is a threat to a country? So instead of showing military strength all one has to do is burn a flag. But if it is as you stated, how come especially Americans find it so offensive? I mean I wouldn't react the least if someone decided to burn our flag. Well I would react of course. What a complete waste of money.

[Azred]

Those who wish to ban flag-burning have failed to separate the symbol from what it represents. A flag is just a piece of cloth; burning it doesn't harm what America means (or what it should mean) in any way. This is animism at its finest....

On the other hand, they'll probably get the votes to pass the measure. Oh, well....

[Night Stalker]

I can see where the symbolism of the Flag fails to stir comprehension for nonAmericans. But, Old Glory is not just a symbol of the US. In every feature of it is tied the symbolism of the very ideals that this nation was founded on and those that died to create it. I admit, it's a very abstract concept, but then, the ideals that founded the country are abstract.

While I do find burning offensive, I don't think it should be illegal. Timber's probably right, some Repug tucked away waiting for the right moment.

[Lanesra]

I cant see the problem, shares in the ACME flag making company must go through the roof whenever there's a war.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Paladin2000: Burning the flag is a symbolic gesture that you want to set the country/state/organization to flame. Sort of anyway, I am not a flag burner and I could only guess the true motive.

Well, to take off from this point, it is interesting that burning the flag is a constitutional right but advocating overthrow of the government is a felony in Chicago.

Me, I'm all for overthrowing the government. Now. Today. Give me my gun. See, that's about 4 technical felonies right there. [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img]

Actually, I'm just joking.
(he said to cover his ass)

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Davros: Nice post about nationalism TL [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] - but like me, you have probably predicted the responses and the respondees - I managed to before I started into them [img]smile.gif[/img] . I am not a supporter of flag burning, but I am even less a supporter of nationalism. At least the former can be included in the Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy as "Mostly Harmless".

Or at least an SEP. [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img]

[Azred]

Originally posted by Night Stalker: I can see where the symbolism of the Flag fails to stir comprehension for nonAmericans. But, Old Glory is not just a symbol of the US. In every feature of it is tied the symbolism of the very ideals that this nation was founded on and those that died to create it. I admit, it's a very abstract concept, but then, the ideals that founded the country are abstract.

I must respectfully disagree. A statue of Christ is not Christ, just like a flag is not America. The flag may stand for America, but it is not the same thing as America. This is what I mean by "separating the symbol from the message". Burning a symbol cannot destroy the message (just read some Joseph Campbell); the message is important...the symbol is not.

[Timber Loftis]

A flag is a totem and a symbol. A totem is a mundane object that is elevated in importance and infused with symbolism to hearken back and recall a time when the group felt a collective effervesence upon experiencing a moment of liminality. A flag is exactly like the cross. At least, that's what Emile Durkheim would say.

Oh, and all flags have a lot of symbolism in them. So, the US flag isn't distinguishible in that way. Not really.

[Azred]

Ah. A small clash of philosophical perspectives, I see. Oh, well...these things are bound to happen every now and then.

Well, don't let me continue to derail the thread. I still think the time isn't right (or they just won't have the votes) to ban burning the leitmotif of America, at least from a Constitutional point of view. They could make it a Federal offense, though.

[ 06-03-2003, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Azred ]