Banning Flag Burning

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by Donut: As far as I can make out getting upset about someone burning your country's flag is an American thing. I couldn't give a toss if someone burns the Union Flag. If you think about it, the flag burner just wants to make you angry anyway and he is succeeding.

This seems to be the general sentiment outside of the USA.

Paladin, if I were to burn a picture of you in front of your face I am not making a statement.

As for the flag representing what the US stands for. I still can't grasp that concept. After all the flag represents what YOU wish it to represent. Your thoughts, your pride, your beliefs and your prejudices. Therefore I believe that you, the American people, represent what America stands for. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Rokenn: Of course the real irony in a flag burning ban is that burning is the only approved method of destroying a worn out flag...

You nailed that one! [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Paladin2000: It is a symbolic gesture to insult upon the recipient, not a sign of threat. It is a little abstract and I am sorry that I am unable to elaborate more.

I think you summed it up nicely. The act of flag burning is intended as an insult, and so, for many, it is insulting. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Just for the record, sign me up for the "I don't like flag burning, but a ban against it is over the top" group. Also sign me up for Attalus' "nose punching" group! [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[quietman1920]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: Of course the real irony in a flag burning ban is that burning is the only approved method of destroying a worn out flag...

You nailed that one! [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Ironically, I have that exact situation. (OK, I'll stop calling you Ironically) 2 1/2 years ago, I put a flag on my car with a promise that it would not come down until Bin Laden & Al Qaida were brought to justice. Today, most of the stripes are worn down to within an inch of the blue field of white stars.

Given that the Bin Laden is all but forgotten as we chase Saddam, I guess its time to take it down. It actually seems a shame to destroy it though; its battle scarred look gives it a certain dignity.

[robertthebard]

I'm with Atty too, it shouldn't be illegal, just don't do it in front of me. I have some pride in where I'm from, but I don't think that making flag burning illegal will do anything to bolster how I feel about my country. It is a symbol, and as such, it deserves respect, but since respect is earned, maybe some people don't respect it as much as I. That's on them. Ofcourse, freedom of expression is rapidly going out the window any here, so what difference does it make. Nice point on the Nationalism too, I'll bet flag burning was punishable by death in Nazi Germany.

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: Of course the real irony in a flag burning ban is that burning is the only approved method of destroying a worn out flag...

You nailed that one! [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]The big difference is the amount of respect the flag is shown when it it burned, I would take an extreme amount of offense if someone burned the flag I spent nearly 5 years defending. Maybe I am unable to seperate the symbolism of the flag from the men and women who gave their lives to see it raised, names like Iwo Jima, the Ardennes, etc etc etc, and my own experience serving make me see it as more than a symbol of a country, it's a symbol that reminds me of the patriots, soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines who gave their all to see it brought about in the first place, as well as those who defend it today. I know that it's also a relatively American idea to place the kind of emphasis on our flag as we do, but perhaps it's an attitude the world would be better off having more of.

I don't think the bill will pass, or if it does the supreme court would shoot it down.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Morgeruat: I know that it's also a relatively American idea to place the kind of emphasis on our flag as we do, but perhaps it's an attitude the world would be better off having more of.

For a flag yes, but other countries have this sort of symbolism problem. For instance in Thailand it is a very grave offense to disrepect a picture of the King (not Elvis, the King of Thailand [img]tongue.gif[/img] ). Both legally and in a personally safety sense

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally posted by Donut: As far as I can make out getting upset about someone burning your country's flag is an American thing. I couldn't give a toss if someone burns the Union Flag.

I thought so too but apparently not... an independent has just introduced a private member's bill into our state parliament banning flag burning [img]graemlins/uhoh1.gif[/img] . Well I'm sure it won't be passed.

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Originally posted by Morgeruat: The big difference is the amount of respect the flag is shown when it it burned, I would take an extreme amount of offense if someone burned the flag I spent nearly 5 years defending. Maybe I am unable to seperate the symbolism of the flag from the men and women who gave their lives to see it raised, names like Iwo Jima, the Ardennes, etc etc etc, and my own experience serving make me see it as more than a symbol of a country, it's a symbol that reminds me of the patriots, soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines who gave their all to see it brought about in the first place, as well as those who defend it today. I know that it's also a relatively American idea to place the kind of emphasis on our flag as we do, but perhaps it's an attitude the world would be better off having more of. I don't think the bill will pass, or if it does the supreme court would shoot it down.

The wording of your description of your service in the American armed forces demonstrates beautifully why this debate is such an exclusively American one: if a German veteran, and one proud of his service, was to describe what he has done it would never ever occur to him to proclaim that he had spent his time with the military "protecting the German flag" - and for the very same reason it would never occur to s.o. who wanted to provokingly express his strong dissatisfaction with the German government or society to do so by burning a German flag.

So, ironically, it is the great number of people in the US like you, who hinge their patriotic feelings to their flag, that ensure that there will always be a certain number of people who feel inclined to express their views or just live out their need to provoke by burning the flag: where there is no taboo, there is no breaking it.

Also ironically, because few democratic countries interpret the concept of free speech as broadly as the US, I am rather certain that there exist provisions making "the degradation of national symbols" a criminal offense or at least a misdemeanor in several countries. Only, as there is hardly ever anybody feeling the urge to break them, they are pretty superfluous, unkown and never the cause for a national debate.

All of the above notwithstanding, I do think that there are certain other countries where the very strong patriotic/nationalistic sentiments of the population would make it suicidal to burn their national flag in public: one example that immediately comes to mind is Turkey.