DEFAMATION?

01-18-2002, 08:30 AM

Ok I have had enough...which is to say I have had enough so now Im gonna rant on a public forum [img]smile.gif[/img]

There is a trend that has me really irked....

In a movie recently released called "BlackHawk Down" the filmmaker portrays an astoundingly accurate version of an incident that happened in Somalia, the people who endured the hardships depicted praised the film for its historical accuracy.

NOW a group of ex-patriated Somali's living in of all places Minnessotta are threatening to sue the filmmaker because the film portrays Somali's as savages. What the HELL is up with that?? An historicly accurate depiction and they are PO'd because it don't look good? Are people that deep in denial that they cannot face reality?
and why should they be allowed to sue for gods sake?

Now if this were an isolated incident I wouldnt have needed to post, but it isn't!

In the Disney animated movie Alladin the ORIGINAl theme song contained a line about a particular place having the custom/law of cutting off the hand of a thief (this is still the law I might add)
and other lines describing accurately current and historical customs of the region...so what happens??? The Arab-Anti-Defamation League sues Disney for defamation of their culture. EXCUSE ME but when has accurate portrayl of events or information been defamation???

Im not really all that angry with the grooups who sued, its their right as quasi-american citizens to sue anyone..what ticks me off to no end is that our judicial system ever allows any of these cases to make it to trial..they should be tossed out before they waste the resources of the judicial system! And the filmmakers.

::: Dennis Miller Rant Mode Off:::

Ok america tell me what you think!

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ] Edits are for format and spelling.

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Epona · 01-18-2002, 08:36 AM

To stick my oar in (LOL, I can't resist)

Surely under your legal system everyone has the right to sue another person for anything - it should of course go to court, because under your system the court decides whether defamation has taken place - not you [img]tongue.gif[/img]

If it is not defamation, then surely your marvellous legal system will decide that - which is what it's there for surely? Just MHO.

01-18-2002, 08:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Epona:
To stick my oar in (LOL, I can't resist)

Surely under your legal system everyone has the right to sue another person for anything - it should of course go to court, because under your system the court decides whether defamation has taken place - not you [img]tongue.gif[/img]

If it is not defamation, then surely your marvellous legal system will decide that - which is what it's there for surely? Just MHO.

yes and No Epona, you see the Judges have the right in our system to judge the "worthiness" of a case to be tried. If the Judge thinks the case is a load of "Horse Hockey" he can toss it out...period...end of issue and save the tax payers a ton of Money...personaly I think this type of suit should have to be paid for by the suing party up front...then they could recover costs if they win. The USA is acknowledged to have the highest incidence of nuisence lawsuits in the world...we are turning into a nation of pansies, if we spill our hot coffee on ourselves we want to sue the people who brewed the coffee...utter stupidity....

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Garnet FalconDance · 01-18-2002, 08:54 AM

YOu already know what I think, MagiK man, but for those here who do not have the benefit of our little Aim sessions.....

Sometimes the truth hurts. Deal with it. If these actions by a people are of historical fact, and they are, then shut up and learn from the past. No one has said the Somalians, or indeed *all* Somalians, are barbaric evildoers. Just that in this incident these were the actions witnessed which were so horrific they left an indelible impression.

What really gets me going is the whole idea of reparation for slavery in the US. I do not condone slavery. I will readily and loudly agree there were atrocities heaped upon the black people during this time period. *However* I see red when I read accounts in the history books which relate that only us 'evil' white people sold the blacks into slavery and so *now* we must be made to pay! Excuse me, it's a matter of historical fact that the black rulers in Africa were selling their own people into slavery (captured warriors and villagers) as well, indeed, that this was the origins of the slave trend. And furthermore, *my* family never had slaves! So why must I be pay repartion for something I have had no part in whatsoever?!?

My family was forced to leave Scotland or face politically decreed death. They were landed gentry and left everything just to survive. Should I sue the British government?

Just because you have the freedom to do something does not give you the *right* to do so!

Vaskez · 01-18-2002, 08:58 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
we are turning into a nation of pansies, if we spill our hot coffee on ourselves we want to sue the people who brewed the coffee...utter stupidity....

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ]

100% agreement here

how true, how true

Blind_Prophet · 01-18-2002, 09:03 AM

I'm with you guys 100% on those views i see them the same way.

Ryanamur · 01-18-2002, 09:49 AM

I will refrain from commenting on this particular issue UNTIL I have seen the movie (which might take long because I'm not a big fan of "boost American ego shows"). On the other hand, I will agree that sueing in the US is out-of-hand and people can sue for the most idiotic reasons... and still win.

But, on the other hand, I'm curious to see how "historically accurate" this "historically accurate" movie is! In the past, many such shows were not really historically accurate as they glorified American actions by presenting only one side of the story. Don't worry, Americans are not the only ones trying to re-write history to make themselves look like good guys.

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Ryanamur ]

Garnet FalconDance · 01-18-2002, 10:04 AM

I agree, Ryanamur, I probably won't go see this movie either--but because 1) I'm not into war movies and 2) I'm sick of the sudden rash of patriotic American do-goody films! I hate it when Hollywood jumps on a bandwagon--makes for boring, low-quality, clone movies which end up with little redeeming value beyond the timing of their release.

For the record, I have a very close friend who is a Marine veteran (of 30 yrs) who was sent to Somalia to help with the 'clean up' on this. He said it was very nasty indeed.

fable · 01-18-2002, 10:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
In the Disney animated movie Alladin the ORIGINAl theme song contained a line about a particular place having the custom/law of cutting off the hand of a thief (this is still the law I might add)
and other lines describing accurately current and historical customs of the region...so what happens??? The Arab-Anti-Defamation League sues Disney for defamation of their culture. EXCUSE ME but when has accurate portrayl of events or information been defamation???

My understanding of the issue, based on a feature I read some time back, was that the AADL was using the incident of the hand because it was the only legal point they could complain about, in a film that has far mroe to do with Broadway musicals than it does with a shining folk epic of Arabic culture. There are tons of gross distortions, of which I (being non-Arabic) catch only a few. But I can sympathize. I can imagine what it would be like if the US had some gigantic folk treasure, respected the world over, and India did an animated film version that used a famous comic adlibbing his endless anachronisms, then redid everything else in terms of Bollywood: ideas, sets, music, people, etc.

So I wouldn't pay too much attention to the surface of this suit. Like so many things in the legal world, the surface hides rather than discloses what's going on.

Barry the Sprout · 01-18-2002, 10:23 AM

Ummm, I can't comment on what the film actuall portrays as the "accurate history" as I have not seen it. Just like to say that how do you know it is "historically accurate"? If it is just the film company saying it then I would be sceptical at best. Remember that Pearl Harbour was not technically accurate, and as for the Patriot...

I just want to say that quite a lot of the stuff that gets thrown around about the whole Somalia incident is misimformation at best. The war lords over there acted barbarically but some of the mistakes the US made in handling the issue just beggar beleif.

I am with Epona on this one - it will all come out in the wash if the case is a load of nonsense. If they have a point, however, they should have the opportunity to let it be known. It is not for us to decide either way as I for one don't know enough to make that kind of judgement.

01-18-2002, 08:36 AM	#2
Epona Zartan Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: London, England Age: 53 Posts: 5,164	To stick my oar in (LOL, I can't resist) Surely under your legal system everyone has the right to sue another person for anything - it should of course go to court, because under your system the court decides whether defamation has taken place - not you [img]tongue.gif[/img] If it is not defamation, then surely your marvellous legal system will decide that - which is what it's there for surely? Just MHO. __________________ [img]\"http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/epona.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

01-18-2002, 08:46 AM	#3
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by Epona: To stick my oar in (LOL, I can't resist) Surely under your legal system everyone has the right to sue another person for anything - it should of course go to court, because under your system the court decides whether defamation has taken place - not you [img]tongue.gif[/img] If it is not defamation, then surely your marvellous legal system will decide that - which is what it's there for surely? Just MHO. yes and No Epona, you see the Judges have the right in our system to judge the "worthiness" of a case to be tried. If the Judge thinks the case is a load of "Horse Hockey" he can toss it out...period...end of issue and save the tax payers a ton of Money...personaly I think this type of suit should have to be paid for by the suing party up front...then they could recover costs if they win. The USA is acknowledged to have the highest incidence of nuisence lawsuits in the world...we are turning into a nation of pansies, if we spill our hot coffee on ourselves we want to sue the people who brewed the coffee...utter stupidity.... [ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ]

01-18-2002, 08:54 AM	#4
Garnet FalconDance Mephistopheles Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: deep within the sylvan splendor.... Age: 60 Posts: 1,443	YOu already know what I think, MagiK man, but for those here who do not have the benefit of our little Aim sessions..... Sometimes the truth hurts. Deal with it. If these actions by a people are of historical fact, and they are, then shut up and learn from the past. No one has said the Somalians, or indeed all Somalians, are barbaric evildoers. Just that in this incident these were the actions witnessed which were so horrific they left an indelible impression. What really gets me going is the whole idea of reparation for slavery in the US. I do not condone slavery. I will readily and loudly agree there were atrocities heaped upon the black people during this time period. However I see red when I read accounts in the history books which relate that only us 'evil' white people sold the blacks into slavery and so now we must be made to pay! Excuse me, it's a matter of historical fact that the black rulers in Africa were selling their own people into slavery (captured warriors and villagers) as well, indeed, that this was the origins of the slave trend. And furthermore, my family never had slaves! So why must I be pay repartion for something I have had no part in whatsoever?!? My family was forced to leave Scotland or face politically decreed death. They were landed gentry and left everything just to survive. Should I sue the British government? Just because you have the freedom to do something does not give you the right to do so! __________________ "Nature tells every secret once." Ralph Waldo Emerson

01-18-2002, 08:58 AM	#5
Vaskez Takhisis Follower Join Date: April 30, 2001 Location: szép Magyarország (well not right now) Posts: 5,089	quote: Originally posted by MagiK: we are turning into a nation of pansies, if we spill our hot coffee on ourselves we want to sue the people who brewed the coffee...utter stupidity.... [ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ] 100% agreement here how true, how true __________________ Too set in his ways to ever relate If he could set that aside, there'd be heaven to pay But weathered and aged, time swept him to grave Love conquers all? Damn, I'd say that area's gray

01-18-2002, 09:03 AM	#6
Blind_Prophet Symbol of Cyric Join Date: November 10, 2001 Location: Yokosuka Japan Age: 38 Posts: 1,168	I'm with you guys 100% on those views i see them the same way. __________________ The height of narcissism

01-18-2002, 08:30 AM	#1
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	Ok I have had enough...which is to say I have had enough so now Im gonna rant on a public forum [img]smile.gif[/img] There is a trend that has me really irked.... In a movie recently released called "BlackHawk Down" the filmmaker portrays an astoundingly accurate version of an incident that happened in Somalia, the people who endured the hardships depicted praised the film for its historical accuracy. NOW a group of ex-patriated Somali's living in of all places Minnessotta are threatening to sue the filmmaker because the film portrays Somali's as savages. What the HELL is up with that?? An historicly accurate depiction and they are PO'd because it don't look good? Are people that deep in denial that they cannot face reality? and why should they be allowed to sue for gods sake? Now if this were an isolated incident I wouldnt have needed to post, but it isn't! In the Disney animated movie Alladin the ORIGINAl theme song contained a line about a particular place having the custom/law of cutting off the hand of a thief (this is still the law I might add) and other lines describing accurately current and historical customs of the region...so what happens??? The Arab-Anti-Defamation League sues Disney for defamation of their culture. EXCUSE ME but when has accurate portrayl of events or information been defamation??? Im not really all that angry with the grooups who sued, its their right as quasi-american citizens to sue anyone..what ticks me off to no end is that our judicial system ever allows any of these cases to make it to trial..they should be tossed out before they waste the resources of the judicial system! And the filmmakers. ::: Dennis Miller Rant Mode Off::: Ok america tell me what you think! [ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ] Edits are for format and spelling. [ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ]

01-18-2002, 09:49 AM	#7
Ryanamur Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 29, 2001 Location: Montréal, Canada Age: 49 Posts: 1,763	I will refrain from commenting on this particular issue UNTIL I have seen the movie (which might take long because I'm not a big fan of "boost American ego shows"). On the other hand, I will agree that sueing in the US is out-of-hand and people can sue for the most idiotic reasons... and still win. But, on the other hand, I'm curious to see how "historically accurate" this "historically accurate" movie is! In the past, many such shows were not really historically accurate as they glorified American actions by presenting only one side of the story. Don't worry, Americans are not the only ones trying to re-write history to make themselves look like good guys. [ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Ryanamur ] __________________ An idiot will only play Russian roulette with an automatic pistol! Thank God they only do it once! <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Smile]\" src=\"smile.gif\" />

01-18-2002, 10:04 AM	#8
Garnet FalconDance Mephistopheles Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: deep within the sylvan splendor.... Age: 60 Posts: 1,443	I agree, Ryanamur, I probably won't go see this movie either--but because 1) I'm not into war movies and 2) I'm sick of the sudden rash of patriotic American do-goody films! I hate it when Hollywood jumps on a bandwagon--makes for boring, low-quality, clone movies which end up with little redeeming value beyond the timing of their release. For the record, I have a very close friend who is a Marine veteran (of 30 yrs) who was sent to Somalia to help with the 'clean up' on this. He said it was very nasty indeed. __________________ "Nature tells every secret once." Ralph Waldo Emerson

01-18-2002, 10:18 AM	#9
fable Quintesson Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Where I am. Posts: 1,089	quote: Originally posted by MagiK: In the Disney animated movie Alladin the ORIGINAl theme song contained a line about a particular place having the custom/law of cutting off the hand of a thief (this is still the law I might add) and other lines describing accurately current and historical customs of the region...so what happens??? The Arab-Anti-Defamation League sues Disney for defamation of their culture. EXCUSE ME but when has accurate portrayl of events or information been defamation??? My understanding of the issue, based on a feature I read some time back, was that the AADL was using the incident of the hand because it was the only legal point they could complain about, in a film that has far mroe to do with Broadway musicals than it does with a shining folk epic of Arabic culture. There are tons of gross distortions, of which I (being non-Arabic) catch only a few. But I can sympathize. I can imagine what it would be like if the US had some gigantic folk treasure, respected the world over, and India did an animated film version that used a famous comic adlibbing his endless anachronisms, then redid everything else in terms of Bollywood: ideas, sets, music, people, etc. So I wouldn't pay too much attention to the surface of this suit. Like so many things in the legal world, the surface hides rather than discloses what's going on.

01-18-2002, 10:23 AM	#10
Barry the Sprout White Dragon Join Date: October 19, 2001 Location: York, UK. Age: 41 Posts: 1,815	Ummm, I can't comment on what the film actuall portrays as the "accurate history" as I have not seen it. Just like to say that how do you know it is "historically accurate"? If it is just the film company saying it then I would be sceptical at best. Remember that Pearl Harbour was not technically accurate, and as for the Patriot... I just want to say that quite a lot of the stuff that gets thrown around about the whole Somalia incident is misimformation at best. The war lords over there acted barbarically but some of the mistakes the US made in handling the issue just beggar beleif. I am with Epona on this one - it will all come out in the wash if the case is a load of nonsense. If they have a point, however, they should have the opportunity to let it be known. It is not for us to decide either way as I for one don't know enough to make that kind of judgement. __________________ [img]\"http://img1.ranchoweb.com/images/sproutman/certwist.gif\" alt=\" - \" /><br /><br /><i>\"And the angels all pallid and wan,<br />Uprising, unveiling, affirm,<br />That the play is the tragedy, man,<br />And its hero the Conquerer Worm.\"</i><br /> - Edgar Allan Poe

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