Don't Arm Bears

[Blind_Prophet]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: I am having trouble believing some of you people are being serious. I am more likely to believe you're playing devil's advocate and are purposely making up stuff just to be debating. If you are being serious, I have a question for you. Do you kill the angry bears that come after you on Baulder's Gate when you get too close to one, and do not have a ranger in your party to calm them down? If you don't, then I suggest dropping this world of sitting on your rear at the monitor and go do what you were meant to do. Be a park ranger. The National Wildlife Society is hiring apprentices I hear. I was unaware that we had so many IW members that qualified!

Thank you larry i about gave up on this Thread.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: I am having trouble believing some of you people are being serious. I am more likely to believe you're playing devil's advocate and are purposely making up stuff just to be debating.

Sometimes an attack is necessary to force people to rationalize their standpoint.

[Felix The Assassin]

Heya Larry,

A kill is a sacrifical part of evolution. However, once the kill is made, then use it. Of course it takes hundreds of slaughtered cattle/sheep/elk/geese/chicked/turkey etc.. to feed an army. Does not bother me a bit.

What does bother me is some jack going into the woods and tempting fate for entertainment, and having a technological advantage.

The movie 'Legends of the Fall' comes to mind. Excellent movie, filmed out here in God's country, Montana is not that far away.

Also, 'Dances with Wolves' comes into play.

I am pro gun. I am not a tree hugger. But I'm very anti-userfriendly, and dislike folks who only have respect for themselves, and not of which is around them.

When fishing, which I bring home and cook for the family, I carry my snubby .357. The first 2 chambers are loaded with snake shot, the middle 2 are loaded with high power magnum hollow points, and the delay 2 are loaded with mid-power FMJ's. However, I don't shoot snakes just because they show up. I don't shoot coyote' because they come snooping, and I have yet to meet a bear. If I did, I doubt that I'd shoot him, give him some fish and ease off would probably do the trick.

[Larry_OHF]

I hear ya loud and clear, Felix...but my amazement with what is being discussed here is how judgemental people are being with the kids and the people that shot the bear.

Number one:

How do we know the kid wanted to be there in the first place? Many parents force their kids to do stuff like this, especially if he was labelled as a troubled teen like the article suggests. Even if he did want to go, how can we say that he was wrong to fight the bear off with whatever came to his mind? He ran on pure instinct, and did not scream like a sissy. He did what his natural self told him he should do, fight the supposed threat off. We cannot condemn him for acting on his impulse to save his life. I don't think we can, anyway. Some states have different laws regarding this issue. I do not know what his state's rules are.

Second: I agree with what has already been desribed in an above post that there was a need to end the bear's life so that he cannot harm anyone else again. Animals can easily become used to humans around. I have squirrels in my back yard that I can almost touch they let me get so close. Nature should not be like that. They should run, and the bear should also have fear of humans. Most animals run instead of fight. The only exception that I am even aware of in nature where an animal would rather fight is the Black Mamba Snake, a native of Africa. Them things will chase down anybody! I am sure there are others, but in general it is not common. It is what diferentiates dangerous animals from harmful animals. A bear is harmful, not dangerous...until it decides humans are no threat. A rattlesnake is harmful, not dangerous, because it wants to be left alone. The day I find one curled up in my bed with me asleep is the day I move to the moon.

Anyway, enough of my mouthing off.

[The Hierophant]

Well said Larry, and Felix, and Kenyth, and Promethius, and pretty much everyone that has posted in this thread. I think you have all made really good points and presented them well.

I'm sure most of you arn't really concerned, but I have to come clean. I only said what I did to get a reaction, hoping that people would articulate well-rationalised responses to my statements. It's part of my High-School teacher training (well, it's not really, but it's something I'm personally experimenting with to assist my training). Forcing people to articulate themselves by attacking their assumptions and beliefs. So, I'm sorry for having done that. But I think it worked resonably well from my standpoint. So, thanks.

[ 05-04-2004, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[Felix The Assassin]

Larry, Excuse me, my coments were not affiliated with that post. That kid did a good job.

My post is in response to 'Promethius9594' on how they killed a 'terrible' bear that waltzed into their 500 person camp. To me a needless kill, and the ignorance and arrogance that are communicated in that message.

[Larry_OHF]

Hierophant: It's cool. I was figuring somebody was playing on the low. No harm in debates like this. I was just finding it outrageous. But that's cool.


Felix: Sorry for the error on my part. With so many posts, I had forgotten who had said what about what. I have always wondered why they don't just catch wild animals that attack people and put them in a zoo somewhere, but I guess the family would expect some type of payoff for the attack. Like that big cat that attacked that woman a few months ago, and she lived, but her face is scarred forever. They shot it too. They assumed it would not be safe to leave alone in the wild, and I suppose everyone expected sometihng done about it...but I have just wondered why death is the immediate response. I guess there is a problem keeping a mankiller in a zoo for kids to gawk at. I don't really have a good answer as to why it is done.

[Tyrion]

Animal Abuse!

A friend of mine was out hunting and another in the hunting team shot a bear dead...he thought. When he walked up to it the bear got new strenght and bit him in the head...not so nice. It was all over the news here°

Alrighty, then..
Sir Krustin, your intro statement of "You people need an education" is incorrect, rude, and grammatically improper.

Hierophant, good on ya.
I agree that the human gene pool is chock full of problems, evidenced at least in part by the emotionally troubled youths at the camp, and also by the wholly predictable yet woefully inadequate response to the bear incident. As a species, we have placed ourselves in a very poor position by protecting those less able to fend for themselves. There are any number of arguments both for and against the protection and subsequent breeding of those who have anti-survival traits, but the current condition of the world as it's been shaped by the dominant species would argue that we are on a poor path.

[Sir Kenyth]

Originally posted by Absynthe: Alrighty, then.. Sir Krustin, your intro statement of "You people need an education" is incorrect, rude, and grammatically improper. Hierophant, good on ya. I agree that the human gene pool is chock full of problems, evidenced at least in part by the emotionally troubled youths at the camp, and also by the wholly predictable yet woefully inadequate response to the bear incident. As a species, we have placed ourselves in a very poor position by protecting those less able to fend for themselves. There are any number of arguments both for and against the protection and subsequent breeding of those who have anti-survival traits, but the current condition of the world as it's been shaped by the dominant species would argue that we are on a poor path.

What it means silly, is that we've reached an evolutionary peak for our environment. Sharks did this a long time ago and nobody finds them at fault. Evolution will occur again when we no longer have the capacity to adapt to our environment. That won't happen soon from what I can see.

Don't confuse social evolution with the "survival of the fittest" kind..