New NASA Data Debunks Global Warming

[Azred]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior But anyways, let's say they're wrong, they cry wolf. It's not happening, the climate is unaffected etc. etc. What does it do for you personally regardless of outcome? Unless you have a handsome sum bet on your own ideas.

What it would do for me personally would be to give me satisfaction in the knowledge that common sense wins in the end, that we don't waste our lives reacting to a handful of "what if" scenarios and actually deal with reality as it exists.

[Chewbacca]

Chicken Little is not the only cast member in this drama. His role is a minor one, but easy to exagerate out of proportion.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Azred What it would do for me personally would be to give me satisfaction in the knowledge that common sense wins in the end, that we don't waste our lives reacting to a handful of "what if" scenarios and actually deal with reality as it exists.

But unfortunately in this scenario, you will be long dead before you find out for sure and experience any satisfaction in the knowledge that you beat the scientists.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Cerek They may or may not be the best scientists in the world studying climatology, but even if they are, that doesn't mean they are the best scientists in the world overall, nor are they automatically the most brilliant minds of our time - as you keep calling them. Many people would consider Bill Gates and Michael Dell to be equally brilliant, not to mention the many scientists that focus their efforts in the medical and pharmaceutical fields as well as the surgeons that develop groundbreaking procedures to heal the injured. Are GCC scientists intelligent? Of course they are. Does that make them the most brilliant minds on the planet? Not necessarily. There are many other minds that could be considered equally brilliant, if not moreso, even though they focus their efforts in other areas. Me personally? Not so much either way. The more appropriate question would be to ask what does the outcome do personally for those involved in the research and analysis? Given the documented manipulation of data and the outright refusal to share their data (both of which run completely contrary to standard scientific practices), it would seem at least some of the scientists involved have an interest that is more personal than academic. I also like the fact that, when the doomsday predictions fail, the Chicken Little standard response is "Well, ok, maybe the sky isn't falling after all, but what would it hurt to act as if it were, just in case?"

Well, what does it hurt you that THEY think the sky is falling, if that were indeed the case? You're seperated from it by your own admissions. I shake my head and smirk at those 2012 doomsayers but because I feel no such fear, I can pretty much move on with my life. Now, unlike these nudnicks, scholars and scientists utilizing survey and intelligence, coupled with real-time experimentation have come to a conclusion. But still and once again, they don't demand you believe it. Whether you do or don't - it changes nothing. Just don't see the point, is all. *shrug*

[Azred]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior But unfortunately in this scenario, you will be long dead before you find out for sure and experience any satisfaction in the knowledge that you beat the scientists.

I'll just leave it in my will to hold seances every 5 years so people can keep me up to date on the latest happenings in the land of the living...or I'll go the Vanilla Sky route and have science clone my body and perform a full brain transplant.

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior Well, what does it hurt you that THEY think the sky is falling, if that were indeed the case? You're seperated from it by your own admissions. I shake my head and smirk at those 2012 doomsayers but because I feel no such fear, I can pretty much move on with my life. Now, unlike these nudnicks, scholars and scientists utilizing survey and intelligence, coupled with real-time experimentation have come to a conclusion. But still and once again, they don't demand you believe it. Whether you do or don't - it changes nothing. Just don't see the point, is all. *shrug*

Uhm...except you keep saying we should listen to the doomsayers, just in case they are right. And even if they aren't, it won't hurt to do what they say anyway.

I don't feel any fear from their prediction either because I'm skeptical of the research that has been done rather than following it blindly.

It also isn't completely true that the scientists do not demand anyone believe them. If they truly didn't care, then there would be no reason for them NOT to share their data with other scientists for testing. The fact they did refuse such a request, and openly admitted the other scientists "just want to find something wrong with it", calls the validity of their data and subsequent research methods into question.

Re-testing of data by other scientists is one of the foundations of science. And even if another group IS trying to prove the data is flawed, the initial scientists should have no concerns unless there is some basis to the allegation. If the data is true and the research was solid, then testing of the data should yield the same results. Again, this is Science 101.

When I took computer science in college, our professor would give us the parameters the program was supposed to meet. After we wrote our programs, he would deliberately enter invalid parameters to see if our programs rejected them or if they crashed. The point is that, IF our program was written well enough, it would not matter how hard the professor tried to "find something wrong with it", because his attempts would fail and the program would still work. Same thing with science. IF the data and research is valid, then re-testing of that data should yield the same (or very similar) results.

I have trouble simply accepting the word of the scientists that their findings are correct when they take measures to prevent anyone else testing their data. As you have said yourself, they should say "Absolutely, test it for yourselves and you will see our conclusions are correct." Instead, they seem to be saying "We've already done the testing so there is no need to test it again. Just take our word that our conclusions are correct".

[Timber Loftis]

Originally Posted by Cerek TL has admitted environmental scientists often use the Chicken Little cry of "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" and then claim the only reason it didn't fall is because they raised the alarm high enough and loud enough to prompt action that prevented it.

Object to the characterization. Other than that, I'm at a loss. I live in a world of risk management, and from that perspective a "worst case" scenario is always a valuable piece of information. The sky only has to fall once, the wolf only has to be there once, and then it's game over. You folks toy too lax with such risk, I only urge precaution. If you insist on parlaying that with ridicule, all I can do is roll my eyes, do a quadruple facepalm, and step away.

[Chewbacca]

4x facepalm...LOL...Sometimes I wish I could do that for real. Looks therapeutic.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Cerek Uhm...except you keep saying we should listen to the doomsayers, just in case they are right. And even if they aren't, it won't hurt to do what they say anyway.

We as in, the world. But not YOU specifically, lol. If you interpreted it that way let me be completely clear. You can safely sit this one out. It will be tough, but somehow, science will find a way to get this done without your approval. Fair enough?

It also isn't completely true that the scientists do not demand anyone believe them. If they truly didn't care, then there would be no reason for them NOT to share their data with other scientists for testing. The fact they did refuse such a request, and openly admitted the other scientists "just want to find something wrong with it", calls the validity of their data and subsequent research methods into question.

Keywords here are "other scientists". Not you. Anyways, if that was the case there'd be no general consensus on the issue but rather, confusion and dissention. Either way, regardless, they don't need you specifically so you're fine.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Azred I'll just leave it in my will to hold seances every 5 years so people can keep me up to date on the latest happenings in the land of the living...or I'll go the Vanilla Sky route and have science clone my body and perform a full brain transplant.

Or you could become like Lord Soth. Doomed to live out his days as one of the undead, tortured by banshees that recount his mistakes over and over, because he failed to do the will of the gods and avert the cataclysm. Either one.