Leave your almanacs and travel guides at home!

[Chewbacca]

Oh man, I guess I will have to memorize the travel almanac for my next vacation. I sure won't be holding an Almanac in my hand the next time I "observe" a historic landmark or other place of notable interest.

self-edited out racially sensitive sarcasm.
Link

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The FBI is warning police nationwide to be alert for people carrying almanacs, cautioning that the popular reference books covering everything from abbreviations to weather trends could be used for terrorist planning.

In a bulletin sent Christmas Eve to about 18,000 police organizations, the FBI said terrorists may use almanacs "to assist with target selection and pre-operational planning."

It urged officers to watch during searches, traffic stops and other investigations for anyone carrying almanacs, especially if the books are annotated in suspicious ways.

"The practice of researching potential targets is consistent with known methods of al-Qaida and other terrorist organizations that seek to maximize the likelihood of operational success through careful planning," the FBI wrote.

The Associated Press obtained a copy of the bulletin this week and verified its authenticity.

"For local law enforcement, it's just to help give them one more piece of information to raise their suspicions," said David Heyman, a terrorism expert for the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies. "It helps make sure one more bad guy doesn't get away from a traffic stop, maybe gives police a little bit more reason to follow up on this."

The FBI noted that use of almanacs or maps may be innocent, "the product of legitimate recreational or commercial activities." But it warned that when combined with suspicious behavior -- such as apparent surveillance -- a person with an almanac "may point to possible terrorist planning."

The publisher for The Old Farmers Almanac said Monday terrorists would probably find statistical reference books more useful than the collections of Americana in his famous publication of weather predictions and witticisms.

"While we doubt that our editorial content would be of particular interest to people who would wish to do us harm, we will certainly cooperate to the fullest with national authorities at any level they deem appropriate," publisher John Pierce said.

The FBI said information typically found in almanacs that could be useful for terrorists includes profiles of cities and states and information about waterways, bridges, dams, reservoirs, tunnels, buildings and landmarks. It said this information is often accompanied by photographs and maps.

The FBI urged police to report such discoveries to the local U.S. Joint Terrorism Task Force.

[ 12-29-2003, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

Yeah, you don't want them to do anything to try and stop terrorists, you just want to bitch about them not doing any thing [img]smile.gif[/img] Come on Chewie..do you think you are giving them a fair shake? By your own posts, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. There is absolutely no way to win for them. Don't you think just maybe you might cut the guys who have to do the job a break?....maybe give them a bone to work with?

How would Chewbaca make me sleep safer in the USA? How would you do the job in their place? I mean if you have a better strategy....lets hear it.

[skywalker]

Sorry, but using tourists with Almanacs as a reason to suspect travelers are terrorists, is a bit over the top. Looks like ever shadow contains a boogyman who wants to destroy all that is America.

I don't buy it.

My opinion of course... And I'm not interested in coming up with a plan to find monsters under the bed, so don't ask.

Mark

[ 12-29-2003, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: skywalker ]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by MagiK: Yeah, you don't want them to do anything to try and stop terrorists, you just want to bitch about them not doing any thing [img]smile.gif[/img] Come on Chewie..do you think you are giving them a fair shake? By your own posts, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. There is absolutely no way to win for them. Don't you think just maybe you might cut the guys who have to do the job a break?....maybe give them a bone to work with? How would Chewbaca make me sleep safer in the USA? How would you do the job in their place? I mean if you have a better strategy....lets hear it.

This is not about me. If you would like to bitch and whine about(and distort) my posts and perspectives, feel free. This will be my last response to it.


And on topic I would love to hear a logical, reasonable (IMPERSONAL) defense of being suspicious because of almanacs. We might as well declare using the internet as suspicious while we are at.

What if having an almanac while looking at a landmark becomes probable cause for arrest for suspicion of terrorism? Is that what America the Beautiful is destined to become?

Fear-The root of paranoia and tyranny.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by skywalker: My opinion of course... And I'm not interested in coming up with a plan to find monsters under the bed, so don't ask. Mark

[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] Excellent! You said better than I could.

[skywalker]

All I can say is it is pretty scary that the people in the FBI are this paranoid.

But even more scary is the probable fact that there must be some pretty nasty intelligence being gathered in regards to Al Qaeda that is causing this level of paranoia.

I shudder at the thought.

Mark

Originally posted by Chewbacca: This is not about me. If you would like to bitch and whine about(and distort) my posts and perspectives, feel free. This will be my last response to it. And on topic I would love to hear a logical, reasonable (IMPERSONAL) defense of being suspicious because of almanacs. We might as well declare using the internet as suspicious while we are at. What if having an almanac while looking at a landmark becomes probable cause for arrest for suspicion of terrorism? Is that what America the Beautiful is destined to become? Fear-The root of paranoia and tyranny.

Lets see a reason to expect terrorists touse Almanacs? Umm because they have maps and geographical data? And because your average Arab American doesnt wander around with one in his hand nor does pretty much anyone...I have roamed the National Mall in DC on many occasions...can't say as how I have ever seen anyone out referencing an almanac...maps yes, almanacs...nope can't say I ever have....and a terrorist just might?

I know you can't have any kind of profiling at all or there will be claims of racism....and now you can't use things people carry with them as an indicator it just sounds like people expect them to catch these guys by divining rod and magic.

Umm and inresponse to the internet comment...did ya know that the government has systems to track certtain usages of the internet? So I guess they thought of that before you did.

Im not making this about you. Im asking if you had any better suggestions. It is easy to be an armchair quarterback......it is easy to complain...at least when I complain I have some idea on how to replace what Im complaining about. I was hoping this would be true for you as well.

All Im trying to find out is...do you just like to complain about things or do you actually have some constructive ideas to be implemented. Im not twisting anything about your post....you complained about a specific problem...I asked...how would YOU go about addressing it.

I will answer my own question however...I would profile. Sorry, it wouldn't make me popular (no fear there ) but I would use race, religion, sex, age, nationality, income average or any other metric that could legitimately give me a shot at nailing the bastards before they commit their plan. I would search every person with even a slight possibility of their being from an arabic state...politely and with some modicum of decent treatment...apologize to the innocents and nail thehell out of the bad guys caught.....thats my solution...Whats yours?

PS. If you really feel that I was distorting your post please PM me with exact references and how you see it as a distortion. Also, if you feel I am being unfair in this thread..all you have to do is ask me not to respond to your threads or posts and I will comply.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by skywalker: All I can say is it is pretty scary that the people in the FBI are this paranoid. But even more scary is the probable fact that there must be some pretty nasty intelligence being gathered in regards to Al Qaeda that is causing this level of paranoia. I shudder at the thought. Mark

I would think, that if they had any solid intel on terrorists that there would be arrests and such. I can't blame them too much for being paranoid, with images of 9-11 seered into the brain and such. Perhaps it is just my background in psycology and martial arts philosophy that leads me to the beleif that acting out of fear is an erroneous motive by which to act. Being paranoid is one thing, acting because of paranoia is another. This just smells at grasping at straws.

Ultimatley, I, in all my armchair general glory, (it's called thinking for myself! shocking!) see this as like just another in a long line of PR stunts designed to make it look like they are doing something. Kind of like the whole Iraq war, orange alert thing, the duct tape and plastic scare amongst others.

Never mind that OBL is probably hiding in a cave in the wild tribal areas of Pakistan, virtually free from harrassment, planning the next real attack somewhere and free to be an idealogical leader for terrorists.

Bottom line is, if they know of a specific threat, they are going to act on it. If they don't know of a specific threat they have obviously have the time on their hands to come up with things like vague warnings about alamanacs.

I live 20 minutes from Boston and have lived in Boston for the last 4 years, I still use my Frommer's Boston Almanac to find new places around town. I also have a Frommer's New England Alamanc for road tours of the area. Having an alamanac proves nothing, and should not logically be probable cause for even suspicion.

Anyway, I've managed to go far and wide in this post and not all of it was a response to your post, skywalker, but more general ranting and opining.

I too shudder at the thought of sinister terrorist plots, but I must refuse to let that fear control my actions. To quote the state motto of my state-neighbor to the north- "Live free or die." I would rather die a free American than live under a blanket of paranoia and terrorism inspired fear.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

The problem I see here is this......IF the terrorists WERE to launch an attack on a National Landmark, and it was later discovered that some of the terrorists had "scouted" the site earlier using (among other things) an almanac to gain information about and directions to the landmark....then the media would be blasting the administration for NOT taking common-sense steps to prevent the attack beforehand.

President Bush and his admin took a LOT of criticism for not realizing the 9/11 terrorists were planning to destroy the World Trade Center. After all, these guys were living in the U.S., took flying lessons here, and had collected extensive data on the airline schedules out of Boston and other surrounding cities. There were some cries in the media of "Why didn't they DO something about this ahead of time?"

Now they come out with measures to try to do something ahead of time, and they are roundly criticized for being paranoid. Sorry, but watching for tourists - especially those with Middle Eastern characteristic - that are visiting national landmarks that would make a plausible terrorist target and carrying an almanac just sounds like a common-sense approach to at least try to anticipate an attack before it happens.

As for me, I don't travel much at all. If I did, I would not feel worried to be seen traveling with an almanac. If the police feel they need to ask me a few extra questions because of that, I don't have a problem with it. It isn't likely to happen, of course, but I'm not going to criticize them for using every resource or method available to do a difficult job.

[Chewbacca]

Perhaps we should also profile caucasians using almanacs if we are going to profiling arabs using almanacs:

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...;f=27;t=000564

And we cannot forget Jose Padila, the hispanic terror suspect whose basic rights of judicial process were recently reinstated by the courts

Better yet, lets just profile everybody as it seems that race doesn't neccessarily equate to terrorist activity. Everyone is a suspect just for being present and having an almanac.

[sarcasm]If you own an almanac you must contact the department of homeland security and arrange for a full search of your person and property. Then we can start registering people who buy almanacs, travel guides and maps, making sure they have full background check, maybe even a 3 day waiting period for such dangerous items.[/sarcasm]

I guess we will see if pestering tourists actually stops a terror attack. In the meantime, I do hope the police and FBI are focused on looking for far more determinable clues of suspicious behavior, like behaving nervously and/or carrying or leaving large out-of-place packages at landmarks for example.

What was that quote by an American forefather about gaining security and losing freedom? The trend here is obvious.