In response to 'No More Sarcasm'

[Silver Cheetah]

I have started a new thread here, rather than replying in the Memnoch's 'no more sarcasm' thread, because I want to ensure my point is not missed. If I am suspended or banned as a result, so be it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Naked Wild Man:
Sarcasm is not an acceptable form of debate? Jonathan Swift must be rolling in his grave.

Emotion is not part of issues like war? LOL.

Okay, I had thought to participate in this forum, but forget it. I was participating in the thread in question, and Silver Cheetah's sarcastic comment was nothing that should bother anyone except the extremely oversensitive.

What a joke. Just close down the whole forum and be done with it.

Bye.

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Delete passion. Delete feeling. Delete anger. Delete personality. Delete honesty. Delete integrity.

In fact, get rid of everything in us that is needed if we are to have any hope of changing the world for the better.

'I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it' - as long as you do it in a way that will offend no-one, and preferably somewhere else... Is that it?

As to Memnoch's comment about slapping down Yorick on the forum - why not, Memnoch? Anti-war people get slapped down, why not pro-war? YES, it does look like a double standard from where I'm sitting. And if you want to ban or suspend me for that comment, go right on ahead.

As Naked Wild Man says, what's the point if every comment must be watered down to make the whole completely inoffensive? Personally, I find the bombing of Aghani civilians pretty damn offensive. I found the bombing of the World Trade Centre offensive. I find the tactics of transnational corporations offensive.

And I intend to continue saying so, in a voice that is authentically *MY OWN* rather than one that is imposed upon me. If I cannot post here on those terms, then so be it.

[Memnoch]

quote:

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Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:

Delete passion. Delete feeling. Delete anger. Delete personality. Delete honesty. Delete integrity.

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I don't remember saying any of these in my post? I said:

"Guys, in future please refrain from using sarcasm or other forms of emotional language when discussing/debating an issue. Sarcasm can sometimes make one person look good at another's expense (even if this was not the intention). This is where seeds of resentment starts, and the other person feels they've lost face and need to "get one back". "

Don't come to the wrong conclusion. You mean to tell me you cannot post with passion, feeling, anger (as long as it is not directed at others), personality, honesty, integrity - without being sarcastic? If so, why are people like Ronn_Bman and Ryanamur able to do it, from opposing sides of the fence, and still not offend anyone by virtue of the language they use to make a point. They MAKE points, not SCORE points.

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'I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it' - as long as you do it in a way that will offend no-one, and preferably somewhere else... Is that it?

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You have misquoted me. My quote (taken from Voltaire) was:

I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. This is the cornerstone around which the concept of freedom of speech is built, as long as it is done with respect for others.

The last sentence is the most important one there.

quote:

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As to Memnoch's comment about slapping down Yorick on the forum - why not, Memnoch? Anti-war people get slapped down, why not pro-war? YES, it does look like a double standard from where I'm sitting. And if you want to ban or suspend me for that comment, go right on ahead.

As Naked Wild Man says, what's the point if every comment must be watered down to make the whole completely inoffensive? Personally, I find the bombing of Aghani civilians pretty damn offensive. I found the bombing of the World Trade Centre offensive. I find the tactics of transnational corporations offensive.

And I intend to continue saying so, in a voice that is authentically *MY OWN* rather than one that is imposed upon me. If I cannot post here on those terms, then so be it.

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You're entitled to all those opinions. Nobody is taking away your right to hold them. But you will say them with respect to others. This entire situation was precipitated by the way that you responded to a point that someone else made in the Aid thread. Surely that person was entitled to his comments too?

We ask for very little from you guys. Respect other posters. They have the same right to express an opinion as you. It is our responsibility to ensure that they are in a position to express their opinion, without taking sides or feeling like they are going to have their heads bitten off. Compared to other forums on the web you will find us very reasonable and understanding. But all this subtle jabbing and verbal pointscoring at others' expense is not acceptable here.

You are entitled to your opinions, but the rules are clear. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Memnoch]

quote:

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Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:
I have started a new thread here, rather than replying in the Memnoch's 'no more sarcasm' thread, because I want to ensure my point is not missed. If I am suspended or banned as a result, so be it.

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I am also wondering why you felt the need to post this separately to the "No more Sarcasm" thread in question? It would have been highly unlikely that your comments would have been missed there. Could it be because there was general agreement to my comments on that thread?

Please accept my apologies if this is not the case.

[Fljotsdale]

I know this will look as though I am just supporting Cheetah because she is my daughter, but frankly, I wouldn't care who had made the post.

THE POINTS MADE ARE VALID!!!!! So are Wild Man's comments.

It is all a normal part of free and open debate between consenting adults. Non-consenting adults should not join in, just as they don't in RL. The oversensitive in RL do NOT put their noses into a vigorous debate because they wouldn't be able to stand the heat.
So, if you can't take the heat of a normal, lively debate, for pete's sake - GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN! DON'T DEMAND THAT WE TURN THE OVEN OFF! All you get from that is undercooked, tepid food/food for thought!

Is that what you want? A tepid forum?

Where is the joy in that? Do you enjoy tepid, undercooked food?

Come on, guys! Have a bit of backbone!

[Silver Cheetah]

quote:

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Originally posted by Memnoch:


I am also wondering why you felt the need to post this separately to the thread in question? It would have been highly unlikely that your comments would have been missed there. Could it be because there was general agreement to my comments on that thread?

Please accept my apologies if this is not the case.

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No to your question.

I have never been afraid to post a viewpoint that was different to the viewpoints of others posting, even if I am the only one posting that viewpoint.

I wanted to make my point in the certainty that everyone would read it, as I felt it was important (my opinion only.)

I myself don't always have time to read all the threads, and sometimes go for days without reading any threads or posting. I try to catch up, but sometimes I miss stuff. I always check out new threads with interesting or eye catching headings however. My new topic post was made for this reason. I assumed others might have similar habits to myself. Of course, many people read all the threads all the time. Especially if they are moderators!

[Memnoch]

quote:

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Originally posted by Fljotsdale:
I know this will look as though I am just supporting Cheetah because she is my daughter, but frankly, I wouldn't care who had made the post.

THE POINTS MADE ARE VALID!!!!! So are Wild Man's comments.

It is all a normal part of free and open debate between consenting adults. Non-consenting adults should not join in, just as they don't in RL. The oversensitive in RL do NOT put their noses into a vigorous debate because they wouldn't be able to stand the heat.
So, if you can't take the heat of a normal, lively debate, for pete's sake - GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN! DON'T DEMAND THAT WE TURN THE OVEN OFF! All you get from that is undercooked, tepid food/food for thought!

Is that what you want? A tepid forum?

Where is the joy in that? Do you enjoy tepid, undercooked food?

Come on, guys! Have a bit of backbone!

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Fljotsdale, have you ever considered the fact that one person's wine could be another's poison? We have to make sure we have a forum that enables EVERYONE to participate - not just those who think they have "backbone". This type of confrontational nature in posting only appeared when this forum came up. We went through an entire year of debating issues but the tone and manner was friendly and congenial throughout - like friends around a campfire. Now it's feeling more and more like work to me, to be honest - put your flak helmet on and jump in, as any opinion you put forward will be kicked back at you twice as strong.

I've been wondering why there's so few people posting in this forum yet the overwhelming majority of complaints we receive is from here. With the response to a very reasonable request I posted - to not use sarcasm to disrespect and demean others - I have the answer I was looking for. Maybe you "regulars" have been so used to the way you treat each other in here that you assume that you can treat everyone else the same way.

Is THIS the kind of forum you want? One where only a select few can participate? Sorry, but this is not going to happen. It's just not worth the time and energy for us to maintain it and settle disputes between people on a regular basis. I'm a moderator, not a judge.

[Memnoch]

quote:

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Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:


No to your question.

I have never been afraid to post a viewpoint that was different to the viewpoints of others posting, even if I am the only one posting that viewpoint.

I wanted to make my point in the certainty that everyone would read it, as I felt it was important (my opinion only.)

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In this case I apologize for coming to the wrong conclusion. Please do read my reply to you and take it in the spirit in which it was posted. I think my request is reasonable and not too difficult to adhere to?

[Silver Cheetah]

quote:

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Originally posted by Fljotsdale:
I know this will look as though I am just supporting Cheetah because she is my daughter, but frankly, I wouldn't care who had made the post.

THE POINTS MADE ARE VALID!!!!! So are Wild Man's comments.

It is all a normal part of free and open debate between consenting adults. Non-consenting adults should not join in, just as they don't in RL. The oversensitive in RL do NOT put their noses into a vigorous debate because they wouldn't be able to stand the heat.
So, if you can't take the heat of a normal, lively debate, for pete's sake - GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN! DON'T DEMAND THAT WE TURN THE OVEN OFF! All you get from that is undercooked, tepid food/food for thought!

Is that what you want? A tepid forum?

Where is the joy in that? Do you enjoy tepid, undercooked food?

Come on, guys! Have a bit of backbone!

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Indeed. I was about to reply to Memnoch's post to me when I saw this. Fljotsdale has pretty much said what I was going to.

Memnoch, I do not feel I am lacking in respect for others. I have never given out any worse than I've got. I get jabbed at a lot - sometimes in a friendly way, sometimes not so friendly. It's part of the debate thing.

What does seriously piss me off is when I see anti-war people treated differently from pro-war.

Shall we agree to disagree on this one?

[Silver Cheetah]

quote:

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Originally posted by Memnoch:


I've been wondering why there's so few people posting in this forum yet the overwhelming majority of complaints we receive is from here. With the response to a very reasonable request I posted - to not use sarcasm to disrespect and demean others - I have the answer I was looking for. Maybe you "regulars" have been so used to the way you treat each other in here that you assume that you can treat everyone else the same way.

Is THIS the kind of forum you want? One where only a select few can participate? Sorry, but this is not going to happen. It's just not worth the time and energy for us to maintain it and settle disputes between people on a regular basis. I'm a moderator, not a judge.

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Actually Memnoch, with respect ... your comment about so few people posting here. Many have left for the opposite reason - that they cannot have a heated debate about issues without subjecting everything they say to major censorship. I am aware that it is also very true that many have left because they found the forum too confrontational. Like I said, you can't please everyone all of the time. People have left for a variety of reasons.

To be honest, when there is no proper 'debate' going on and everyone is just agreeing with each other, I don't bother, and nor do many others. Sometimes the forum moves so slowly that you get just a couple of posts a day, most of them by Ron_B, who I'm sure gets bored talking to himself...

The whole point of debate is to air different and often conflicting views, and learn more about each other in the process. I've had some great interactions with people on here that I've disagreed with intensly, - we've even made 'friends'!! via email. That's pretty positive, if you ask me.

[Memnoch]

quote:

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Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:


Indeed. I was about to reply to Memnoch's post to me when I saw this. Fljotsdale has pretty much said what I was going to.

Memnoch, I do not feel I am lacking in respect for others. I have never given out any worse than I've got. I get jabbed at a lot - sometimes in a friendly way, sometimes not so friendly. It's part of the debate thing.

What does seriously piss me off is when I see anti-war people treated differently from pro-war.

Shall we agree to disagree on this one?

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I have no problem with you disagreeing with me at all. Your objection has been noted. I'm here to enforce the rules, not to enforce my opinion on you. I'm asking for one thing - respect for your fellow posters going forward from now (I don't care what happened in the past). So no sarcasm that demeans people or their opinion, ESPECIALLY if you don't know how they will react to it. Fair?