Flirting

[ʆë®Ñï†Ý]

Originally posted by Attalus: I don't think that I understand the part about: "Do you think that a guy has a "right" to then try and force a girl given that he thinks she's been leading him on? Is it not then wrong for someone to flirt with a person. Have that person become infatuated with the flirter then flirt with other people and break said person's heart?" I don't think any man, and certainly no gentleman, has the "right" to force a woman to do anything. His opinions count for exactly zero. Also, I really don't think that anyone's heart can be broken just by flirting. Men (me included) are quite capable of falling head over heels over a woman on no encouragement at all, I and I do not feel that the woman has any guilt in the matter, unless she had clearly led him on. So, Eternity, I have seen some of your posts and do feel that you are flirtatious, but I have not seen anything you need to feel guilty about. Certainly not to allow any man to 'force"you to do anything that you dont want to do.

You understood me perfectly hun. Thank you. Galadria is v. lucky [img]smile.gif[/img] And I lurve ur sig! Give my love to Galadria. I miss her! [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img] As for me [img]graemlins/lovestory.gif[/img] I am not feeling forced or anything but I do wonder about how my behavious may be taken and would like to do my best to prevent myself from hurting anyone.

What is defined as clearly leading on though? Usually on a night out most guys judgements are clouded by alcohol.

How much do you think people can excuse their behaviour with the excuse of alcohol?

[Attalus]

Lol, I'll tell Gal how lucky she is, though I don't think she'll be very impressed. I'll also tell her that you miss her, but I don't think she'll be coming back to GD unless something here really interests her. To answer your questions, alcohol is no excuse for anything. If at all, it should be another reason to apologise for and regret one's behavior. Also, though I know I sound old-fashioned, you girls should be prudent when you are on the town. Go in groups, don't drink too much, even if you think that you are with someone you can trust. As to what can be constituted as leading a man on, I should say, giving notes, making sexual suggestions, physical contact (stroking, etc), should be considered definite signs that a girl is ready to party. Nothing less. If a man is unsure, he should ask.

[Epona]

Originally posted by ʆë®Ñï†Ý: How much do you think people can excuse their behaviour with the excuse of alcohol?

Well I don't think alcohol is an excuse for anything (and I should know LOL). I do some daft stuff when I'm drunk, but never anything I regretted (apart from falling flat on my face in the road LOL, it hurt for days).

[ʆë®Ñï†Ý]

Originally posted by Epona: Mmmmmm, I don't really do the whole dressing up thing myself, I pretty much always dress casual. I think it's more about how you act really, although of course wearing a skirt that's little more than a wide belt would undoubtedly get you some attention! But flirting isn't about what you wear IMO.

Truly? So wearing provocative clothing isn't flirting? What about the way you walk (e.g. swaying hips) or if you stare at someone slightly longer than usual? I got told tucking my hands into my back pocket or just hooking my thumbs into my front pocket is flirting. [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img]

Just walking down my street (which is a pretty respectable place where hookers do NOT hang about) in jeans shirt and jacket, some guy in a lexus (whom I thought needed directions) rolled down the window and went,

"Williamson street, know it?"

me: "no, sorry."

him, "are you looking for business?"

me, "no"

him, "How much would it cost me to have you, give me a figure."

me, "no really. I'm not looking for business, I've got to go." and I start walking away.

he shouts after me, "do you have a number I can contact you on?"

me, "no, sorry, I've really got to go, bye!" and I legged it.

Which leaves me kind of worried as to whether it's my fault this happened to me. Maybe some way I walked or just something about me?

Originally posted by Epona: Lessons? Blimey, you make it sound as if I'm a pro. I don't see anything wrong with a little harmless flirting, and it's more or less essential if you're out on the pull

aha! Being out on the pull? Does that give randonm guys about 30yrs older than me the right to grope me up when I walk past? I was tempted to stomp on their feet and protest but it seemd half the club was doing that and I didn't want to get hurt. I've never been back to that place. But I do wonder where the line lies.

[Epona]

Originally posted by ʆë®Ñï†Ý: quote: Originally posted by Epona: Mmmmmm, I don't really do the whole dressing up thing myself, I pretty much always dress casual. I think it's more about how you act really, although of course wearing a skirt that's little more than a wide belt would undoubtedly get you some attention! But flirting isn't about what you wear IMO.

Truly? So wearing provocative clothing isn't flirting? What about the way you walk (e.g. swaying hips) or if you stare at someone slightly longer than usual? I got told tucking my hands into my back pocket or just hooking my thumbs into my front pocket is flirting. [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img]

Just walking down my street (which is a pretty respectable place where hookers do NOT hang about) in jeans shirt and jacket, some guy in a lexus (whom I thought needed directions) rolled down the window and went,

"Williamson street, know it?"

me: "no, sorry."

him, "are you looking for business?"

me, "no"

him, "How much would it cost me to have you, give me a figure."

me, "no really. I'm not looking for business, I've got to go." and I start walking away.

he shouts after me, "do you have a number I can contact you on?"

me, "no, sorry, I've really got to go, bye!" and I legged it.

Which leaves me kind of worried as to whether it's my fault this happened to me. Maybe some way I walked or just something about me?

Originally posted by Epona: Lessons? Blimey, you make it sound as if I'm a pro. I don't see anything wrong with a little harmless flirting, and it's more or less essential if you're out on the pull

aha! Being out on the pull? Does that give randonm guys about 30yrs older than me the right to grope me up when I walk past? I was tempted to stomp on their feet and protest but it seemd half the club was doing that and I didn't want to get hurt. I've never been back to that place. But I do wonder where the line lies.[/QUOTE]No, it's not your fault. Some guys just cannot keep their hands to themselves. NO-ONE has the right to touch you unless you say it's OK to. IMO you could be walking down the street stark bollock naked and it STILL wouldn't give ANYONE the right to grope you. Stamp on their toes, the repressed freaks deserve it.

[Melusine]

Eternity, I think you should stop fussing about it. Every girl that's not even moderately attractive gets hit upon every now and then, hell, you wouldn't believe how often it happens. It's apparently part of being a woman
But of COURSE it's NEVER your own fault. I think most women intuitively know when they're "asking for it", namely when they're actually willing, and in ALL OTHER CASES, you are not giving incentive and it's NOT your fault.
Clothing has little to do with it. I've had experiences when I was going out wearing a short skirt or something and got hit upon a lot, but it never seemed to me that it was my own fault or something - sure, they can chat me up if they think I might be interested, but as soon as I tell them I'm NOT, they can bugger off, no matter what skirt I'm wearing. If you're firm in your rejections, make it absolutely clear you're not interested, you have done all you can.

Nothing excuses groping or anything of the sort and I can honestly say I am embarrassed to be male when I hear of other blokes doing things like this. It's pure frustration as well as complete lack of self-control and I'm sorry you had to put up with such disrespectful men, Eternity.

As far as flirting goes - well, I like it in the right circumstances, I hate it when it is for the sole purpose of leading someone on. The best flirting is always done subtly. I personally enjoy mind games and like a bit of tactful flirtation here and there. I much prefer the refined route over the blatent, ostentatious ways

[ʆë®Ñï†Ý]

Originally posted by Arledrian: Nothing excuses groping or anything of the sort and I can honestly say I am embarrassed to be male when I hear of other blokes doing things like this. It's pure frustration as well as complete lack of self-control and I'm sorry you had to put up with such disrespectful men, Eternity. As far as flirting goes - well, I like it in the right circumstances, I hate it when it is for the sole purpose of leading someone on. The best flirting is always done subtly. I personally enjoy mind games and like a bit of tactful flirtation here and there. I much prefer the refined route over the blatent, ostentatious ways

I'm glad there are guys like Avvy and u in this world [img]graemlins/bighug.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/anmflower.gif[/img] Although I'm not so sure about mind games... are they maybe a little cruel?

You're right Melusine. I shouldn't get worried about it. [img]smile.gif[/img]

but what do you think constitutes as flirting?

[Attalus]

Originally posted by ʆë®Ñï†Ý: [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] Just walking down my street (which is a pretty respectable place where hookers do NOT hang about) in jeans shirt and jacket, some guy in a lexus (whom I thought needed directions) rolled down the window and went, "Williamson street, know it?" me: "no, sorry." him, "are you looking for business?" me, "no" him, "How much would it cost me to have you, give me a figure." me, "no really. I'm not looking for business, I've got to go." and I start walking away. he shouts after me, "do you have a number I can contact you on?" me, "no, sorry, I've really got to go, bye!" and I legged it. Which leaves me kind of worried as to whether it's my fault this happened to me. Maybe some way I walked or just something about me? [/b]

OMG, that happened??????? On behalf of the entire male sex and vanishing race of gentlemen, I'd like to apologise. There is absolutely no excuse for that kind of crap.

[Melusine]

Me? depends. There are some things already mentioned here, such as frequently touching someone (even if only on the arm or shoulder or sth - as that is actually proven to be behaviour indicating you ARE interested in someone) and using lots of innuendo that I don't think are very wise to do unless you're interested in that person.
But like I said, I would have thought most people intuitively know when they're going too far. I may make an off-colour joke or reference to a guy, but smile in a way to make absolutely clear I'm just joking.
In any case, whether you consider someone to be flirting or not, if a woman - or a guy!- gives a clear 'no', there is NOTHING that allows them to try anything. No is no, no matter what signals they thought you were giving before that.