The "China" Crises

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by 250: "if US are nationalist, who could stop us?" the answer is everyone. you dare to do such a thing openly against everyone on earth? no empires/tyrannies, be it Roman Kingdom, Mongalian, or any other stood against its people's rage and not being crushed "through out the history, no country has..." what history are you indicating? short like 200 years? well, i tell you, your history is only a drop of water in the ocean wide time. how pathetic this "mighty" would seem when centuries later. when the new comers look back and hear their ancestors' empty claims/boasts echo through the waste which used to be a mighty nation, and they point out "this, was USA" about Palestine, had not US been so strongly support Israel, it wouldn't have the guts to openly stood against all Arab countries and took Palestines' lands. this caused today's cnstant warfares in mid-west. US did it, why? because they need to maintain a strong supply of oil as well as a powerful ally. anyway, thats about all i want to say. i have better things to do. my remark about "go home" is not to you but your nation, think it childish if you mst. know that if you dont allow people's casual talk, then.... err, i dont know. .

Thank you for making my point about the U.S. not being Nationalistic all of the world powers that you listed were nationalistic and here is a few more through out history the Unitied Kingdom mid 1500's - late 1800's when they were top dog, the aztec empire 1400's - early 1500's, the Assyrians 600's B.C. Egytpian empire we can go back to the caveman.

As for who could stop us? the question was not answered with any facts to back it up. The U.S.A. has approx 10,000 deliverable nukes the big boys not counting the tac. nukes. The U.K. around 500 ,France less than that, Russia vertualy none deliverable, China a couple of hundered. India a handful ,Pakistan same.
Do the math, and it will be evident that we out number everybody else by a large margin. Again that makes my point that we are not nationalistic
As for Israel while you are here(assumtion made from address made on posts "Ca or Mo") you might want to check out the discovery channel or history channel,
They have shows on all the time about how the Nation of Israel started and fought in the early years. It is inacurate to assume that Israel could not survive with out the U.S.A. We have a saying here "it's not the size of the dog in the fight it's the size of the fight in the dog". The Israelis have prevailed in their past conflicts not because of U.S. equiptment, rather because of Israeli will.
As for the oil supply if I'm not mistaken the Arab have most of that, not Israel.

[Charean]

Just my 2 cents - take it for what it is worth...

Frankly, I don't know why we can't all just "get along" and quite this rooster posturing by both China and US. Frankly, I wonder if either side will be able to save face and settle this in a peaceable manner.

As far as the American bashing goes: Keep in mind that it is ALWAYS wrong to hate in the plural. I may not always support what our "elected leaders" do, but I have never hated one country for what one person did.

There may have always been spies - but the rules of the air are the same by sea - the small and manuverable must give way to the big and cumbersome. The Chinese pilot had a reputation for "hotdogging" and was trying to give the US plane a scare... and they were really in US air space.. even as China keeps extending the line.

A war between US and China would be in neither's interest.. and I am hoping the leaders of both countries realize this. It would not only devastate two countries, but it would impact the world's economy, the enviornment and in other ways that cannot be predicted.

There really is no debate here - unless you just want to bash one country over another.. I thought we got past that on the internet... no borders here.

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Defender for the Light -
Goodness knows there is a lot of Dark out there!! - Where are my matches?!?
The secret is knowing the rules so you can bend/break them selectively!!!
Aquisition master of the Finest of Humours - and the Killer Joke
Musketeer of Fast Fourward
Looking for lost brain - I left it only for a moment....
Muse and Eternal Love of KDogRex

[250]

one doesnt need 20,000 to destroy a country, it actually makes no sense to say 20,000 is better than 2,000 in terms of nuclears

and i doubt it would resolve in nuclear war. that only means the extinction of mankind, sad, sad

about your other points, i dotn want to argu simply because i dont care

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Charean: Just my 2 cents - take it for what it is worth... Frankly, I don't know why we can't all just "get along" and quite this rooster posturing by both China and US. Frankly, I wonder if either side will be able to save face and settle this in a peaceable manne

I think you hit the nail on the head it's a save face problem, I've never understood that. It seems logical to me if you're wrong you can only save face by admitting it. To do anything else just shows that not only are you wrong but you're blind to the truth as well.

[Charean]

Originally posted by John D Harris:
[/b][/QUOTE]
I think you hit the nail on the head it's a save face problem, I've never understood that. It seems logical to me if you're wrong you can only save face by admitting it. To do anything else just shows that not only are you wrong but you're blind to the truth as well.[/b][/QUOTE]

It is especially true to save face with an Asian country... it is going to be difficult for both side to wiggle out.

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Defender for the Light -
Goodness knows there is a lot of Dark out there!! - Where are my matches?!?
The secret is knowing the rules so you can bend/break them selectively!!!
Aquisition master of the Finest of Humours - and the Killer Joke
Musketeer of Fast Fourward
Looking for lost brain - I left it only for a moment....
Muse and Eternal Love of KDogRex

[This message has been edited by Charean (edited 04-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Charean (edited 04-07-2001).]

[Gray Mage]

Originally posted by Moridin: Let us not forget the spy case involving Wen Ho Lee, a chinese-american accused of spying at Los Alamos National Laboratory. He was held in custody for 9 months while the US Justice Department investigated the allegations that he spied for the Chinese. He was finally released after the Justice Department could not come up with any 'hard' evidence that Mr. Lee did in fact pass nuclear secrets. Is it therefore OK for the US to hold 'captive' one of it's own citizens on allegations of spying, but not OK for the Chinese to do the same? The Chinese I believe are acting rational in holding the American spy plane personel in 'custody' until an investigation into the event is done. Who caused the accident is inconsequential. We were caught spying and unfortunately have to pay the consequences of that. It is a risk that is taken! And to the statements that the US is the worldwide 'police' force that everyone comes running to in times of need. My question is where was the US when the genocide in Rwanda was happening? Did an American soldier ever step foot in Rwanda? NO! The US only takes an interest in foriegn affairs when they have something to gain. So do not sit here and tell us that the US is the almighty protector of the world, when thousands are dying in places like Rwanda.

This is not about China holding it's own men, This is about them holding our Servicemen. This Wen Ho Lee, should still be in jail if not executed, in my book selling secrets to another nation is treason. You know what the penalty for treason should be.....death, if it is not already.

Anyone who doesn't like the way we do things in america can leave. The only way we should have to pay consequences if it was our fault for the collision. But if you take all the evidence, Type of planes, pilot history(Mr. top gun want to be) maveuverability, and all the factors. The evidence seems to suggest that they collided with us.

I also notice nobody said anything about the subs that fire Undetectable nukes, that were purchased from our former enemy.

John D Harris, hey, good to see you still here. Can you belive the drivel that is spewing forth.

Draconia, It seems that these guys are jealous of your husbands grasp on the world situation, Bravo to him.

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Feel My Power

Arcane Adept of the OHF, "So let it be written, So let it be done"

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: The opinion of Draconia's husband has another side. The US is like a mobster extorting from a shopkeeper. we will protect you from evil they say and while they are protecting they take all of your countries forest products, resources, power, water, whatever, then they sell it back to you for a higher price! Yeah everyone owes the US alot. (Rolls eyes sarcastically) [This message has been edited by Djinn Raffo (edited 04-07-2001).]

Djinn Raffo, don't sell it to us, problem solved.
I'm not making a moral jugdement on wiether or not we should be top dog , just the facts. Personaly I never bought into manifest destniny we are in the position we are in because of blind-ass luck and coasts on two oceans.

OK! Everyone Kiss And Make Up!

NEW TOPIC!


Moni

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Moni: OK! Everyone Kiss And Make Up! NEW TOPIC! Moni

Yes,ma'm (says with down cast eyes and a slow southern draw, mumbles to self "but we's just fun'n um")

[This message has been edited by John D Harris (edited 04-07-2001).]

[Lord of Alcohol]

I'm with Moni, we could argue forever. Can we all agree to disagree? And then maybe let it drop?