The "China" Crises

[250]

this point has been disproved before you came:


you mentioned Pearl Harbor being bombed by Japan. well, if one talks about historical incidents, one should not talk it out of context. Japan was expanding at that time, their military forces invaded/occupied many asian countries. this, at the same time, was harmful to US's control over east asia. US would join the war against Japan sooner or later, and that was why Japan started fire first. It was UNAVOIDABLE due to the confrontation of two nation's interests.

however, look what China had done? in the past 50 years, China had only confronted US militarily twice. one was Korean War, another was Vietnam War. Both warfares happened near Chinese mainland, shouldn't a country properly interfere when a war had a great possibility to do harm to its people? I think yes, and the actions were justified. After all, don't send your army here, and we are fine.

so why the US began to constantly spying on China? China had no interest of going to war with US. I, as a Chinese, saw what is needed for china. Chinese people are still below average standard of richness, China needs to develope economically as well as its people's idea of democratic, liberty, and freedom of speech. If there is one thing China doesn't want now, it is war with US.

However, US had been constantly sending military aircraft along Southern China sea. The purpose while mostly remained secret, was obvious obtaining information for its unfriendly nearby countries. I mean, WHY?? does that mean, US want every chinese to extinct from this earth? does that mean US want every chinese to suffer as long as US exists? does that mean every chinese to live under its shadow in their lives? cannot the two countries sit down and talk like normal people


Pearl Harbor is not a good excuse

[Moridin]

Originally posted by caleb: I use to live in hawaii 10 minutes WALKING distance to where the japanese planes were first spotted and it is on the completely opposite side of the island from where pearl harbor is so Japan just flew straight through all the towns that had no military protection except for a few crappy little bunkers which couldnt have been big enough for radar because I used to play in the abandoned ones all the time and their hella small.Anyway like 2 hours later they are bombing pearl harbor and the navy got slaughtered because of not knowing where the enemy was coming from.Still with me? well thats the reason why the U.S.A. has to use the spy planes so we dont get our ass handed to us again and thats why bush is not going to apologize because it was necessary and every country does it.

Caleb--

He is not apologizing for spying! Of course every country does it that is obvious. China is demanding an apology b/c they think our plane caused their plane to crash. And we think their plane caused ours to crash. That is why both sides are looking for an apology!
And as for Pearl Harbor. I do not think we need to worry about that now. We have these things called satelites! We are not worried about a sneak attack. There is absolutely no way Pearl Harbor could reoccur!!!

------------------

It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant,
than open it and remove all doubt!

Originally posted by caleb: I use to live in hawaii 10 minutes WALKING distance to where the japanese planes were first spotted and it is on the completely opposite side of the island from where pearl harbor is so Japan just flew straight through all the towns that had no military protection except for a few crappy little bunkers which couldnt have been big enough for radar because I used to play in the abandoned ones all the time and their hella small.Anyway like 2 hours later they are bombing pearl harbor and the navy got slaughtered because of not knowing where the enemy was coming from.Still with me? well thats the reason why the U.S.A. has to use the spy planes so we dont get our ass handed to us again and thats why bush is not going to apologize because it was necessary and every country does it.

Don't want ot reignite the debate but there was more to the events at Pearl Harbor than just lack of military intelligence. E.g other aspects included:

WW2 in other theatres
US Isolationism
US Attitudes towards Japan's Actions in Manchuria / China
Tripartite Axis co-operation
Japanese Imperial Ambitions


Besides Pearl Harbor could have been avoided with better radar equipment and procedures, given the attackers were spotted on radar, but were assumed to be B-17s from the mainland.

------------------

Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger

HATS for sale baby!
Sponsored by Yorick
Your ad here? Call 112 -221 -123

[caleb]

About my earlier post it was 7:10 a.m. and I had been up since 12:00 noon the day before and was gonna ask some baldurs gate 2 question but I was so wasted and tired I forgot what it was and somehow I ended up with the pearl harbor ranting which even I cant see any relevance to the subject of the thread.(then again there have been alot of unrelated u.s.a. would win because.....messages)And when I said bush is not gonna apologize I forgot to add that I think he should.

------------------
RULE #1:I am always right
RULE #2:See rule #1

250

I think it is because
Whenever China says and does
US will always see them a communists
And Somehow the US see communism as bad
Now I'm not saying Chinese Communism is good
Buit communism as system if worked out well is the best system in the world

Not the US cannot see that as they are THE Kapitalist Country
No country is so rich but also has so many poor people
That is worked out much better in Scandinavia

But This is a Time of peace
China is Part of the UN so there is no reason to distrust them
Holland isn't spying on belgium becoz they freed themselfs 200 years ago
What's in the past should remain there

------------------

I think it is because
Whenever China says and does
US will always see them a communists
And Somehow the US see communism as bad

Umm thats been US Policy from the 1950s, part of the premise of the cold war.

Now I'm not saying Chinese Communism is good
Buit communism as system if worked out well is the best system in the world

As with many things conceptually fine, but fails in practice due to human nature

Not the US cannot see that as they are THE Kapitalist Country
No country is so rich but also has so many poor people
That is worked out much better in Scandinavia

Strict levels on immigration controls may have something to do with this

But This is a Time of peace
China is Part of the UN so there is no reason to distrust them

So was Russia during the Cold War

Holland isn't spying on belgium becoz they freed themselfs 200 years ago
What's in the past should remain there

Can you be sure? close proximity, and similar economies make them rivals for trade etc.



------------------

Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger

HATS for sale baby!
Sponsored by Yorick
Your ad here? Call 112 -221 -123

Originally posted by Sir_Tainly: Now I'm not saying Chinese Communism is good Buit communism as system if worked out well is the best system in the world As with many things conceptually fine, but fails in practice due to human nature

That's a Damn Shame

Image
No Greed
No Hunger
No Crime
Equal Changed

But there are always people
Who want to have more than others
And thus Communism doesn't work

That's a Damn Shame


------------------


[This message has been edited by Rikard (edited 04-10-2001).]

Originally posted by Rikard: Originally posted by Sir_Tainly: Now I'm not saying Chinese Communism is good Buit communism as system if worked out well is the best system in the world As with many things conceptually fine, but fails in practice due to human nature That's a Damn Shame Image No Greed No Hunger No Crime Equal Changed But there are always people Who want to have more than others And thus Communism doesn't work That's a Damn Shame

True, but in a perfect world there's no incentive to strive to improve things, so it's just going to go downhill

------------------

Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger

HATS for sale baby!
Sponsored by Yorick
Your ad here? Call 112 -221 -123

[caleb]

In addition if I sound like a dumbass and dont know what I am talking about just tell me to shut the hell up and dont quote my message it messes with my head and makes me think I have posted the same crap more then once and then I am like a jackass x2..........I still have not slept since my first message on this thread so this message probably sucks too.I might make it in to guiness for staying awake the longest though.

------------------
RULE #1:I am always right
RULE #2:See rule #1

Caleb get some sleep dude, you not being coherent.
I quote to show to whom I replying, good practice in busy forums. If you're staying awake for a guiness, man, aren't there better incentives?

------------------

Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger

HATS for sale baby!
Sponsored by Yorick
Your ad here? Call 112 -221 -123