The "China" Crises

[Memnoch]

OK, I'm coming in at the tail end of all this and just wanted to offer some comments on how this debate was managed. I won't comment on the actual topic as it's gone on for 5 pages and I can't really add any more value to the discussion.

Overall I believe that people feel strongly about this topic. I can appreciate that people are passionate and entitled to their opinion, and that will be on both points of view. There is never going to be a "right or wrong" in these debates, there's no "prize" to be won at the end of it, so you might all want to keep that in mind when you start to feel your control on your temper slipping.

Flaming is when the debate starts to get personal, with insults thrown at people rather than views, because someone will personalize someone else's opposing point of view. This is NOT acceptable.

Just like in business, try not to take the other person's point of view personally, and you will have a very interesting debate, and will be able to leverage knowledge from each other without necessarily having to agree. Easier said than done, and takes practice, I know.

When it starts to get heated, just take a deep breath, cool down, remember that YOU as a person are not being attacked, resist the urge to attack the other person, then post your viewpoint.

Rikard, one last thing - you could've phrased your opener to this topic a bit more tactfully. Calling Bush Jr a moron and a murderer is hardly the way to open a sensible debate and is going to be the one thing in your post that people will focus on and respond to, not the real issues behind what is happening in China today.


------------------


[This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 04-08-2001).]

I totaly agree with memnoch and that is the main reason why i didn't reply anymore

I often argue with my friends about somethings and even though these discussions are very heatend i have never killed any of them (yet)
So thy not to take everything to personal
And don't give people the possiblity to take it personal (eg not you stink dude i think...)

------------------

[250]

Originally posted by Accord: I'm sure you can handle it!

heh, thx! but this one is really bizzare... ack... i hate to say it, it is so wired it resembles none-sense instead of any AD&D artifact

[Accord]

Originally posted by 250: heh, thx! but this one is really bizzare... ack... i hate to say it, it is so wired it resembles none-sense instead of any AD&D artifact

Really? Why not post the description on the BG2 forum? You got me curious!!

------------------
Long live H22A1!!!!!

Originally posted by Rikard: I dunno if you all have notest But America has chosen Bush jr to be their president And i dunno if you have notest this But he's a complete moron Somehow he thinks it's needed to send Spyplanes to China And when one of them crashes to a chinese plane and thus killing the chinees pilot He doesn't seem to know he has actually murdered someone Again A couple of years ago Russia send spyplanes to America America took them out of the air and disabled the planes sending the parts back in small boxes to moskow But if China does this America will try to start the WWIII Any opinions on this one??

Oh gosh.. Yep. I have one!

Bush (to me atleast) looks weak. kind of like a rookie, but I hope that will change. I did vote for him, but only to get the 'Clinton Era' out. (Gore).
I did LIKE Gore, but liked what Bushs plans were better..

OK, China.. They say we were in their airspace, when infact we were not. They 'claim' a what.. 200mile buffer when the treaty says 25miles.

Anyway, the chinese plane clipped the American plane. This US plane is SLOW, and those two chinese jets were fast, who can get out of the way faster? (Just one thing that makes be believe that it was not the US's fault)

I KNOW why the US won't apologize. They have spy satellite Intel of this..
(My guess)

If the US isn't VERY careful though, this could get out of hand quickly. China has one of the largest Milatary on the planet.

Just some thoughts.. ??

Ziroc

[250]

alright, let me be little objective

first of all, no country in the world likes to be spied. US spied china, because US had long ago treated China as potential threat instead of thinking the possible cooperation. the "coincidence" is, in fact, unavoidable due to american foreigne policy. if the planes dont crash, soemthing else will happen.

second, you spy other country, invaded their air (dont claim you didnt because you were SPYING). intruded other nation's land property right. alright, lets not talk about about if you did it right or wrong. but you killed one of other's pilot, crashed their plane, AND landed in their land WITHOUT permission.
and even worse yet, you played a face of being the boss, DEMANDING china to return american men immediately, AND not investigate the spyplane. read it, do those make sense to you?

investigating spyplane had been a long tradition. 1976, a russian fighter plane escaped USSR, and landed in Japan. dispite USSR's strong demand of "returning the plane immediately" US and Japanese formed a 100 scientists investigation group and basically pieced everything on that russian fighterplane. the plane was returned 76 days later after it was RE-MODELED

return the american soldiers and plane dont make sense at all, while, I personally hope these people can go home and reunion with their family. but NOT before US apologize for what they did!

[Memnoch]

From a diplomatic point of view, this issue has moved past who was originally at fault and is now at who can save the most face. And the poor US servicemen are caught in the middle (as was the Chinese pilot that lost his life).

This is now about China's national pride and their determination to show their citizens that they won't be pushed around in their own backyard, irrespective of who was at fault.

This is also about the Bush Administration's drawing their line in the sand and their desire to make sure that China know that the US is a superpower and that China isn't one (yet).

There's a third consideration - China's 1.3 billion people are a huge market for US multinationals so the tone against China has been a lot more respectful than the tone against, say Russia, when the US caught Robert Hanssen spying and kicked out 50 Russian diplomats.

Very interesting and potentially dangerous times ahead.

------------------

[250]

Originally posted by Accord: Really? Why not post the description on the BG2 forum? You got me curious!!

lets say, i dont want to spoil it... hehehehehehe, you can dl it when it is done though, some really good editor is making this item

Originally posted by 250: I am just saying china cannot win should it come to fight, thats all

I don't know about that. If we went to war with China, you can expect Russia to join China. Others that would usually back the US MAY not--knowing what type of alliance they would be up against. ? Just guessing..


Ziroc

[Accord]

Originally posted by 250: lets say, i dont want to spoil it... hehehehehehe, you can dl it when it is done though, some really good editor is making this item

Cool.

------------------
Long live H22A1!!!!!