WELCOME TO IRONWORKS!!!

Cerek the Barbaric · 02-06-2002, 10:39 PM

Again, I have to applaud everyone who has Posted in this forum so far. We've had some incredibly insightful and thought-provoking comments.....but
NOT ONE SINGLE FLAME!!!! [img]graemlins/greenbounce.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bouncered2.gif[/img]
Even when members were commenting on "bad" experiences with Religion, there was no generalized condemnation of that Religion.

Very, very, impressive. Now, let's see if I can catch up with everybody.

First of all, GOOD religious experiences.
I've posted this story before, so I will try to give a brief summary here.

I have a chronic illness. While it is incurable, the disease itself is not fatal....but it can lead to life-threatening complications.

Four years ago, that's exactly what happened. I had a massive, spontaneous internal injury occur from the disease. I went to the E.R. knowing that I needed surgery QUICKLY!! Through a combination of factors, I was transferred to another hospital and my surgery was delayed for 30 HOURS. The surgeon told my wife and mother that only a miracle would save my life due to the extensive contamination in my system. Obviously, we got that miracle. When I returned home, I learned that prayer chains (a large group of faithful people praying together for a common purpose) had "sprung up" overnight in my home county. My best guess is that close to 2/3 of the Christians in my rural county were on thier knees praying for God to spare me. They had learned of my condition from my co-workers at the 1st hospital (where I had worked for 6 yrs). Most of these people had no idea who I was. One preacher couldn't even remember my name...he just said "God, I can't remember the boy's name, but YOU know who I'm talking about. I pray that you spare this boy's life through your Infinite Grace".

That example of love, devotion, and faith still brings a tear to my eye 4 years later.

jtqbe

That was an excellent definition of Christianity. The fact that it was done while trying to get your children to bed makes it even more impressive. Very Well Done.

Oh, BTW

WELCOME TO IRONWORKS!!!

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

K T Ong · 02-06-2002, 11:23 PM

Cerek, looking at that pic of a hunky Norseman which you use for your sig, one would never have imagined that you in fact suffer from a chronic ailment. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Perhaps you should try Qigong or Tai Chi?

fable · 02-07-2002, 12:53 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
Zen! LOL. Unfortunately my worldview is the exact opposite of Buddhas.

But the content of your message wasn't dogmatic, in the literal or figurative sense:

Go on a search. Or don't. What you do is your own business and you shouldn't need to feel ashamed no matter what path you take.

There are many deceased Tao masters who are now looking at you and smiling.

Scholarcs · 02-07-2002, 03:05 AM

I have a question for the Christians here, please dont be offended. Since Jesus said to turn the other cheek, why didnt George Bush do that when the US was attacked?

Sorry for that, its been sticking in my mind for a while.

About Christianity, what denomination of Christain are you? A few months ago, I left the mainstream Presbyterian Church. I left because the Church was trying to attract more people by appearing unchurchlike. But they went to far, and it ended up being too unchurchlike. Also, I knew many people who called themselves Christains and went to church, but didnt do Christain things, or act like a Christain, outside of church. Par contre, I know many people who when questioned about religion, call themselves athiests, yet they are good, honest people, never afraid to give support, help people up etc. Basically, I know athiests who act like Christains should, and Christains who act like athiests. This sort of destroyed the illusion of the church for me.

So now I am looking for a new denomination.

Many thanks for any comment you are to give...

- a lost christain

Cerek the Barbaric · 02-07-2002, 09:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by K T Ong:
Cerek, looking at that pic of a hunky Norseman which you use for your sig, one would never have imagined that you in fact suffer from a chronic ailment. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Perhaps you should try Qigong or Tai Chi?

Unfortunately, K T, I'm afraid my Sig picture is mere fantasy...and has nothing to do with the harsh reality. The "hunky Norseman" was provided by our resident Sig Wizard, Sazerac. It wasn't what I had pictured....it was far better than what I had in mind.

Cerek was an AD&D character and the Sig resembles him MUCH more closely than it does me. However, take heart, I have finally e-mailed a picture to Cloudy in hopes of being posted to Stealthy's Site.

I've never tried Tai Chi, but I'm interested in it. Fortunately, we even have a local Tai Chi dojo. Pretty impressive given the rural location I live in.

For the record, the illness I have is Crohn's disease. It is a very fickle (and potentially nasty) beast that can occur anywhere in the digestive tract, but usually attacks the small intestine and/or colon. Despite it's seriousness, it can be controlled (somewhat) with medication (like diabetes or high blood pressure). From what I understand of Tai Chi, it's reasonable to assume that it would be beneficial.

Thanks for the advice and concern.

Update: Thanks to Cloudy, you can now see what Cerek really looks like. Cloudbringer was kind enough to Post a photo of my family on Stealthy's Site (pg 20). Check out the Ironworks Photo Album thread for a link to the site.

[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

02-07-2002, 09:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Scholarcs:
I have a question for the Christians here, please dont be offended. Since Jesus said to turn the other cheek, why didnt George Bush do that when the US was attacked?

Sorry for that, its been sticking in my mind for a while.

Since this is a serious question and not a cynical barb, Ill try to answer this...tho I dont speak for everyone.

To take any single sentence and apply it willy nilly accross the board without using common sense is one of the most ...its just not intelligent. Jesus and God expect you to use your brain and judgement in your actions (it is why you have them). The comment about turning the other cheek I believe is more in reference to personal dealings...when you are the head of a household you are not supposed to turn the cheek when your family is threatened since as the head of household you are responsible for their health and welfare. A national leader is the same only more so. GWB is responsible for the lives, safety and well being for over 280 million people, so were he to just turn the other cheek he would be abandoning his responsiblity to those he is supposed to protect.

This is similar to people talking about the "Judge not lest ye be judged" thing....it isnt telling you to not judge the actions of others, (you are required to make those kinds of judgements all the time) but is more an admonishment that you should be fair and consistent in those judgements because you may be held to the same standards.

So I guess the short answer is..use your intelligence and common sense and not focus on one sentence in an entire chapter, or paragraph...read it all in context and then broaden the scope of that context into how it all fits together as a complete whole.

WOLFGIR · 02-07-2002, 09:46 AM

Hehe, couldn´t help this

Cerek, your sig image is not a norse man!

Rather a germanic "fantasy inspired" as such!

The "norseman" I presume you mean a viking

had no horn in their helmets, and also they used wood or hide for their shields which were usually alot bigger. The axes were mainly cleave style with only one oneedged heads. Straightlined tops and also refered to as raven-styled axes. Vikings also used clothes all over their bodies!

and their helmets usually had "glasses" on their helmets to protect the eyes.

Some curios shared !

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

Cool image none the less!

jtqbe · 02-07-2002, 09:51 AM

Thanks for the welcomes, everyone!

quote:
Originally posted by Scholarcs:
I have a question for the Christians here, please dont be offended. Since Jesus said to turn the other cheek, why didnt George Bush do that when the US was attacked?

Sorry for that, its been sticking in my mind for a while.

No need for "sorry"--it's a very good question! Let me expand a bit on MagiK's very good points:

When Jesus was talking about turning the other cheek, he was speaking to individuals, to his followers. Christians who have been forgiven find it much easier to forgive others, even murderers.

Government, on the other hand, is not a Christian institution. The purpose of government isn't to proclaim Christ and his love; the purpose of government is to keep order and protect its citizens. If you have a Bible, Romans 13 talks about this a little.

As a Christian, if he is one, George W certainly will want to be forgiving. However, as a government official, he is sworn to carry out the duties of his government, and that includes protecting/defending his people.

fable · 02-07-2002, 11:35 AM

Could this comment of Christ's about "turning the other cheek" also be seen in context as an answer to the traditional cultural response of "an eye for an eye?"

jtqbe · 02-07-2002, 12:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by fable:
Could this comment of Christ's about "turning the other cheek" also be seen in context as an answer to the traditional cultural response of "an eye for an eye?"

Exactly. "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39) Jesus was telling his disciples to be different, even to the point of showing love to those who hurt them.

02-06-2002, 10:39 PM	#51
Cerek the Barbaric Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 29, 2001 Location: North Carolina Age: 61 Posts: 3,257	Again, I have to applaud everyone who has Posted in this forum so far. We've had some incredibly insightful and thought-provoking comments.....but NOT ONE SINGLE FLAME!!!! [img]graemlins/greenbounce.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bouncered2.gif[/img] Even when members were commenting on "bad" experiences with Religion, there was no generalized condemnation of that Religion. Very, very, impressive. Now, let's see if I can catch up with everybody. First of all, GOOD religious experiences. I've posted this story before, so I will try to give a brief summary here. I have a chronic illness. While it is incurable, the disease itself is not fatal....but it can lead to life-threatening complications. Four years ago, that's exactly what happened. I had a massive, spontaneous internal injury occur from the disease. I went to the E.R. knowing that I needed surgery QUICKLY!! Through a combination of factors, I was transferred to another hospital and my surgery was delayed for 30 HOURS. The surgeon told my wife and mother that only a miracle would save my life due to the extensive contamination in my system. Obviously, we got that miracle. When I returned home, I learned that prayer chains (a large group of faithful people praying together for a common purpose) had "sprung up" overnight in my home county. My best guess is that close to 2/3 of the Christians in my rural county were on thier knees praying for God to spare me. They had learned of my condition from my co-workers at the 1st hospital (where I had worked for 6 yrs). Most of these people had no idea who I was. One preacher couldn't even remember my name...he just said "God, I can't remember the boy's name, but YOU know who I'm talking about. I pray that you spare this boy's life through your Infinite Grace". That example of love, devotion, and faith still brings a tear to my eye 4 years later. jtqbe That was an *excellent* definition of Christianity. The fact that it was done while trying to get your children to bed makes it even more impressive. Very Well Done. Oh, BTW WELCOME TO IRONWORKS!!! [ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ] __________________ [img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/cerek/cerektsrsig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Cerek the Calmth

02-06-2002, 11:23 PM	#52
K T Ong Symbol of Cyric Join Date: January 27, 2002 Location: Plateau of Singapore Age: 61 Posts: 1,230	Cerek, looking at that pic of a hunky Norseman which you use for your sig, one would never have imagined that you in fact suffer from a chronic ailment. [img]smile.gif[/img] Perhaps you should try Qigong or Tai Chi? __________________ <br />Look! Everyone\'s admiring me! <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Big Grin]\" src=\"biggrin.gif\" />

02-07-2002, 12:53 AM	#53
fable Quintesson Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Where I am. Posts: 1,089	quote: Originally posted by Yorick: Zen! LOL. Unfortunately my worldview is the exact opposite of Buddhas. But the content of your message wasn't dogmatic, in the literal or figurative sense: Go on a search. Or don't. What you do is your own business and you shouldn't need to feel ashamed no matter what path you take. There are many deceased Tao masters who are now looking at you and smiling.

02-07-2002, 03:05 AM	#54
Scholarcs Red Dragon Join Date: December 5, 2001 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Age: 38 Posts: 1,557	I have a question for the Christians here, please dont be offended. Since Jesus said to turn the other cheek, why didnt George Bush do that when the US was attacked? Sorry for that, its been sticking in my mind for a while. About Christianity, what denomination of Christain are you? A few months ago, I left the mainstream Presbyterian Church. I left because the Church was trying to attract more people by appearing unchurchlike. But they went to far, and it ended up being too unchurchlike. Also, I knew many people who called themselves Christains and went to church, but didnt do Christain things, or act like a Christain, outside of church. Par contre, I know many people who when questioned about religion, call themselves athiests, yet they are good, honest people, never afraid to give support, help people up etc. Basically, I know athiests who act like Christains should, and Christains who act like athiests. This sort of destroyed the illusion of the church for me. So now I am looking for a new denomination. Many thanks for any comment you are to give... - a lost christain __________________ <br />\"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five\" - Groucho Marx<br />Member of the ORT Clan. <br />\"Some birds are not meant to be caged because their feathers are too bright\"<br />Ma bouche sera la bouche des malheurs qui n\'ont point de bouche, ma voix, la liberté de celles qui s\'affaissent au cachot du désespoir. - Aimé Césaire<br />La plus perdue de toutes les journées est celle où l\'on n\'a pas ri. - Sébastien Roch Nicolas

02-07-2002, 09:01 AM	#55
Cerek the Barbaric Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 29, 2001 Location: North Carolina Age: 61 Posts: 3,257	quote: Originally posted by K T Ong: Cerek, looking at that pic of a hunky Norseman which you use for your sig, one would never have imagined that you in fact suffer from a chronic ailment. [img]smile.gif[/img] Perhaps you should try Qigong or Tai Chi? Unfortunately, K T, I'm afraid my Sig picture is mere fantasy...and has nothing to do with the harsh reality. The "hunky Norseman" was provided by our resident Sig Wizard, Sazerac. It wasn't what I had pictured....it was far better than what I had in mind. Cerek was an AD&D character and the Sig resembles him MUCH more closely than it does me. However, take heart, I have finally e-mailed a picture to Cloudy in hopes of being posted to Stealthy's Site. I've never tried Tai Chi, but I'm interested in it. Fortunately, we even have a local Tai Chi dojo. Pretty impressive given the rural location I live in. For the record, the illness I have is Crohn's disease. It is a very fickle (and potentially nasty) beast that can occur anywhere in the digestive tract, but usually attacks the small intestine and/or colon. Despite it's seriousness, it can be controlled (somewhat) with medication (like diabetes or high blood pressure). From what I understand of Tai Chi, it's reasonable to assume that it would be beneficial. Thanks for the advice and concern. Update: Thanks to Cloudy, you can now see what Cerek really looks like. Cloudbringer was kind enough to Post a photo of my family on Stealthy's Site (pg 20). Check out the Ironworks Photo Album thread for a link to the site. [ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ] __________________ [img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/cerek/cerektsrsig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Cerek the Calmth

02-07-2002, 09:21 AM	#56
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by Scholarcs: I have a question for the Christians here, please dont be offended. Since Jesus said to turn the other cheek, why didnt George Bush do that when the US was attacked? Sorry for that, its been sticking in my mind for a while. Since this is a serious question and not a cynical barb, Ill try to answer this...tho I dont speak for everyone. To take any single sentence and apply it willy nilly accross the board without using common sense is one of the most ...its just not intelligent. Jesus and God expect you to use your brain and judgement in your actions (it is why you have them). The comment about turning the other cheek I believe is more in reference to personal dealings...when you are the head of a household you are not supposed to turn the cheek when your family is threatened since as the head of household you are responsible for their health and welfare. A national leader is the same only more so. GWB is responsible for the lives, safety and well being for over 280 million people, so were he to just turn the other cheek he would be abandoning his responsiblity to those he is supposed to protect. This is similar to people talking about the "Judge not lest ye be judged" thing....it isnt telling you to not judge the actions of others, (you are required to make those kinds of judgements all the time) but is more an admonishment that you should be fair and consistent in those judgements because you may be held to the same standards. So I guess the short answer is..use your intelligence and common sense and not focus on one sentence in an entire chapter, or paragraph...read it all in context and then broaden the scope of that context into how it all fits together as a complete whole.

02-07-2002, 09:46 AM	#57
WOLFGIR Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Sweden Age: 50 Posts: 3,450	Hehe, couldn´t help this Cerek, your sig image is not a norse man! Rather a germanic "fantasy inspired" as such! The "norseman" I presume you mean a viking had no horn in their helmets, and also they used wood or hide for their shields which were usually alot bigger. The axes were mainly cleave style with only one oneedged heads. Straightlined tops and also refered to as raven-styled axes. Vikings also used clothes all over their bodies! and their helmets usually had "glasses" on their helmets to protect the eyes. Some curios shared ! [img]tongue.gif[/img] Cool image none the less! __________________ Don´t eat the yellow snow

02-07-2002, 09:51 AM	#58
jtqbe Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: November 21, 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 29	Thanks for the welcomes, everyone! quote: Originally posted by Scholarcs: I have a question for the Christians here, please dont be offended. Since Jesus said to turn the other cheek, why didnt George Bush do that when the US was attacked? Sorry for that, its been sticking in my mind for a while. No need for "sorry"--it's a very good question! Let me expand a bit on MagiK's very good points: When Jesus was talking about turning the other cheek, he was speaking to individuals, to his followers. Christians who have been forgiven find it much easier to forgive others, even murderers. Government, on the other hand, is not a Christian institution. The purpose of government isn't to proclaim Christ and his love; the purpose of government is to keep order and protect its citizens. If you have a Bible, Romans 13 talks about this a little. As a Christian, if he is one, George W certainly will want to be forgiving. However, as a government official, he is sworn to carry out the duties of his government, and that includes protecting/defending his people.

02-07-2002, 11:35 AM	#59
fable Quintesson Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Where I am. Posts: 1,089	Could this comment of Christ's about "turning the other cheek" also be seen in context as an answer to the traditional cultural response of "an eye for an eye?"

02-07-2002, 12:09 PM	#60
jtqbe Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: November 21, 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 29	quote: Originally posted by fable: Could this comment of Christ's about "turning the other cheek" also be seen in context as an answer to the traditional cultural response of "an eye for an eye?" Exactly. "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39) Jesus was telling his disciples to be different, even to the point of showing love to those who hurt them.

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