A comment about the complaints

[SpiritWarrior]

The game itself is great, yes the toolset is superb for it creates endless playability even for those who don't wish to create modules, can still go and download other people's work providing infinite quests and enjoyment.

I do have alot of issues with the graphic/rendering engine used in NWN's however, as it's extremely taxing on many many systems and truly, to be played properly and to it's *FULL* potential (i.e. all the settings on high) it requires the highest technology in hardware both visual and practical. Not everyone has a kick-ass, brand new system and yet in many ways, this game demands it.
If you doubt any of this take a peek at the Bioware tech forums and you'll read countless posts from people who, despite meeting the recommended requirements, still had trouble running this game.

There are so many 3d game engines to choose from, that are similiar(if not better) and way sleeker in running quality on a cpu (for example, a modified version of American McGees 'Alice' engine, or a simple camera modified Dromed engine). I suppose it had something to do with the fact of OpenGl rendering being very new at the time of conceiving (they say this game was X amount of years in the making) thus requiring top end systems to run at the time.

[homer]

in bg1 i felt i could take things at my own pace and end up fighting sarevok at level 4 or level 7 it was up to me nwn i felt like the game knew what level i would be for each area of the game so there was never any challenge, only two challenges i had in the entire game was klauth (where i had to use my recall stone to go out of a fight and back once) and morag (had to use lots of potions)

I am curious about what type of character you played and what difficulty setting you had the game on. I am being sincere not sarcastic. I have had many encounters where I found it necessary to retreat. I will submit that you could be a better player than I; I just found it more difficult than what you imply here. Maybe the character or henchmen made a difference. I am playing a monk and not using any henchmen.

bg1 is a genuinely challenging game, to beat it you have to have v.good tactics, esp if you dont want to lose a party member. nwn your henchman is generally a retard and i was continually resurrecting him, no tactics involved because your a single person and i could wade into 10 enemies in every fight and come out with barely a scratch.

I agree that there are a lot less tactics involved in the single player game. I believe this is a by-product of only controlling one character, not a poor single player module. Changing your character class will obviously not change the story. It will, however cause you to approach encounters in a different manner.

bg1 you have the advantage of approaching the game from so many different directions, different npcs, different quests, the game is never the same twice nwn you feel like even if you played it through again all you can change is to go a little bit evil on choices ie instead of persueding someone for more money you hack em up for more money, and you feel the other thing you can change is your character, that for me is not enough reason to play again.

There are, I believe, different quest options depending on your alignment. For example, giving Tyr (spelled right?)’s artifacts to the priest or the evil character at The Moonstone Mask. I am not sure of how many more; maybe there are only a few. As for different NPC’s, there are 5 or 6 to choose from; I am not sure how many, off-hand. I do think that it is rather poor that you are able to complete all the NPC’s related quests, even if they are not with you. Of course, these quests only consist off finding an item.

Everything comes down to personal opinion of course,

I agree…

but theres plenty of reasons why BG1 is better REGARDLESS of opinion. Non-linear is better than linear, i dont know anyone who wants a rpg where you go from A to B and thats it, so non-linear is better. Atmosphere and scope are also very important, and baldurs gate has a better atmosphere..

however, this dose sound like an opinion. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Grungi]

well only just an opinion insofar as everyone i know prefers non-linear to linear and every review i have ever read of an rpg game dating back 20 years prefers non-linear to linear.... so yeah there might be the odd person who likes totally linear adventures in preference to non-linear but im yet to meet em.

and i played a pure warrior char with henchman daelen red tiger who was indispensible in the 1st chapter but by the 2nd just died in every major fight i had, so i ended up going it alone, traps i just triggered and took it, chests i bashed open with improved power attack, and the rest was just tactics to take enemies, i never just rushed into a fight. So yep i really did find it easy, except as i say vs klauth as he did an attack of over 100 i could only take two of those before i had to flee off and come back, but he only did them rarely so i slapped him down in the end. The other problem was morag as she had lots of minions and that spike trap which i had to wade through to get to hurt her, but once i took the gargoyle out protecting the trap it got easier and then was just a matter of taking all my potions and hitting her alot (shes more dangerous once she stops casting! her hits were nasty)

i think i was playing on normal difficulty, most likely whatever default was.

[homer]

Originally posted by Grungi: [QB]well only just an opinion insofar as everyone i know prefers non-linear to linear and every review i have ever read of an rpg game dating back 20 years prefers non-linear to linear.... so yeah there might be the odd person who likes totally linear adventures in preference to non-linear but im yet to meet em.

Please excuse me, I did not really mean the comment about linear or non-linear. I was referring more to the comment about the atmosphere of the game. I believe that to be something that can only be based on an opinion. I would submit that there are players who found NWN’s atmosphere more enjoyable.

I do agree that role-playing games where the players choose which path to take are more enjoyable than ones where they are pushed from one point to the next. However, even in my experience with tabletop role-playing, some linear type action was always necessary. We could sit back and control our kingdoms and such, allowing the DM to bring in unrelated events; Events that would cause us to think “on the run”, so to speak. If ever we wanted to complete a certain quest or recover a particular artifact, however, it was necessary for the DM to set up an A to B type scenario.

[Grungi]

ah ok yes me saying it has a better atmosphere is opinion but shared by most people who have played both games.

by linear i dont mean a to b i mean no or very few sidequests or locations that arent relevant to the main plot, for example baldurs gate has about 30 entire maps you dont need to go to for the main plot at all, nwn every location i found was to do with the main plot in some way. It seemed like a very straight line from start to finish with very little in the way of going off on your own, when you complete the game you are invariably level 15-17 theres very few random monsters too, its all preset.

It made me feel like i was being pushed to everything too easily, thats what i mean about the atmosphere really, i felt like the whole single player was thrown in for good measure and not really thought about too well, some sections were good, like the ancient ruins and the whole klauth dragon plot bit, others looked like very little thought had gone into them and were formulaic and predictable, the 1st second that guy in nwn chapter1/prologue spoke i knew he was going to be a traitor, i like to be surprised in a game, or have a well built plot like resident evil 2.

[homer]

Originally posted by Grungi: by linear i dont mean a to b i mean no or very few sidequests or locations that arent relevant to the main plot, for example baldurs gate has about 30 entire maps you dont need to go to for the main plot at all, nwn every location i found was to do with the main plot in some way.

I think I understand what you are saying now, by non-linear. I guess I do agree with you, there are not many areas to go to that are not part of the main quest. I do not remember BG1 that well so I will take your word on there being more side areas.

I did find an area, in chapter 2, that I was never able to enter. It was a mine somewhere to the north of the town.

the 1st second that guy in nwn chapter1/prologue spoke i knew he was going to be a traitor, i like to be surprised in a game, or have a well built plot like resident evil 2.

I also agree about Desther, he defiantly seems like a bad guy right from the start. I was kind of surprised when they hung Fenthick though or when Aribeth turned traitor. Like we have been saying it is mostly opinion.

I have downloaded a number of player made and Bioware made modules; I have yet to try any. I still suggest, to those of you who were not impressed with the single player module, that you try some of these others before you wipe the game from your hard drive.

[Grungi]

heh ill spoil the mine for you, you need to kill the 4 escaped convicts, their leader is hidden in the mine, only after you kill the other 4 do you get to kill the leader who is in the mine as then the mine opens up (you get a key as he kidnaps the guys daughter) so although this is a sideplot yet again all 4 of the convicts are in areas you have to visit for the main plot and you almost cant miss them.

yeah i didnt expect fenthick to be hanged but he was a waste of space anyhows so didnt make much diff to me, i didnt think much of aribeth though either, so was no surprise when she went funny, i was itching to beat up on her anyway [img]smile.gif[/img]

in baldurs gate you have areas like durlags tower which is about 10 maps worth (i counted it as only one area) of traps, puzzles and monsters and its challenging to the extreme whatever level of party you have. In BG you can wander around for 6 player levels (at level 4 party can kill the end of game boss so level 6 is powerful) without ever even doing the main plot at all. Its that flexibility that i miss in NWN, and now in icewind dale too which i also have started playing.

[homer]

Originally posted by Grungi: heh ill spoil the mine for you, you need to kill the 4 escaped convicts, their leader is hidden in the mine, only after you kill the other 4 do you get to kill the leader who is in the mine as then the mine opens up (you get a key as he kidnaps the guys daughter) so although this is a sideplot yet again all 4 of the convicts are in areas you have to visit for the main plot and you almost cant miss them.

I do not recall a quest for escaped convicts in chapter 2; I must have missed the individual who gives this quest.

in baldurs gate you have areas like durlags tower which is about 10 maps worth (i counted it as only one area) of traps, puzzles and monsters and its challenging to the extreme whatever level of party you have.

Was Durlag’s tower included with the original game, or was it part of an expansion? I honestly cannot remember.

[Grungi]

durlags was part of the expansion, it alone was well worth the price, add to that the updates and extra quests and its well worth getting. Durlags as a standalone area is the most challenging and interesting area i played through in an rpg game.

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for the convicts, when you first enter chapter 2 go to the guy behind a desk in the building with aribeth, he will offer you a quest to find 5 escaped convicts, as proof of killing them you must bring their ears back to him, you will find the first 4 in the 4 main areas you need to investigate for the main quest, dont let them try and weasel their way out of being killed, kill them or they will attack u anyway, theres no nice option (that i found [img]tongue.gif[/img] or cared about ;D) once the 4 are killed and their ears are brought to the guy who set the quest he will tell you his daughter has been kidnapped by the 5th convict (you may have met her outside in the town, shes the one you talk to and wants adventure, if you upset her she refuses to speak to you again) then you get the mines key and can go back to the mines to kill him, free her and claim the bounty and i think a magic item.

[David15]

Look, why is all debate over linear and non-linear RPGs confined solely to RPGs that Bioware have made? Download Nethack, or buy Morrowind, but don't waste time arguing about whether or not Neverwinter's Official Campaign is too linear, as this is toatlly subjective and everyone will have a different opinion.

Sorry to be so aggressive...I just got fed up with all the argument of the 1st page and it's about 35 degrees Celsius outside

[ 01-30-2003, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: David15 ]