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Old 01-26-2005, 11:37 PM   #41
Azred
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Join Date: March 13, 2001
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The fact that two teenagers decide to torture/abuse a kitten says nothing about society as a whole, only about those two individuals. They choose their own actions, and they have chosen a set of actions that point to the fact that they act inhumanly (or inhumanely, if you prefer).
They don't deserve to be beaten or some other equally viscious fate; they deserve to be placed in a mental institution until the source of their insanity can be discovered and possibly cured. Abusing animals is well known to be a "first step" in the development of a future sociopath (sociopaths are worse than psychopaths, because sociopaths know they are doing something wrong but don't care).

Many people transfer their own innocence onto animals, especially puppies and kittens. We view them as "helpless" because we project that they are; in a sense they are, yes, but not as helpless as we were at that age. However, generations of selective breeding have instilled a certain inherent trust of humans in many cats and dogs, thus when someone breaks that trust we find it unusually despicable.

Although this would qualify as felony cruelty to animals, the sentencing rules remain rather lax; depending on the circumstances they might serve some jail time, but will probably get a stiff fine and lots of community service...and maybe even psychiatric counseling.
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Old 01-26-2005, 11:41 PM   #42
Bungleau
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Join Date: October 29, 2001
Location: Western Wilds of Michigan
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Believe me, Cerek, I was not criticizing or judging your actions in McDonalds. My thoughts were along the lines of what I'd do after reading them the riot act and everything else.

And I think I was one of those who mentioned that cruelty to animals like this is a sign of bad things to come, so I'm with you there.

I wish I knew the answer to how to make people care and respect others. I really wish I did. But I haven't found it yet, and I know that as I look at my kids, there's definitely an evolution that takes place as they grow up. They learn to appreciate things differently, and things that were "okay" last year now concern them. Perhaps there's a chance that they can grow out of it. And perhaps they won't.... that's why I said that in my mind, they've put themselves on a watch list. There goes the hand of Big Brother again...

The world would be so simple... if it weren't for all the people
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Old 01-27-2005, 04:35 AM   #43
Arnabas
Baaz Draconian
 

Join Date: October 11, 2001
Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Age: 47
Posts: 721
Quote:
Originally posted by Cerek:
But what amazes me to this day is the fact that NOBODY stood up to do anything about ME going crazy on these kids. My voice is rather loud and carries a long way under normal conditions, but this was in a veritable fishbowl setting and I was literally yelling at the top of my voice. I'm sure people could hear me all the way to the counter, but NOBODY came up to me and said "HEY, what the heck do you think you're doing to these kids?" And I'm especially amazed that neither the father or the grandmother stood up and said "Get your hands off my kid". Yet noone seemed to take ANY notice of my actions.
Perhaps, Cerek, they were thinking "thansk goodness someone is disciplining my child, since I'm too afraid to."

I have seen too many parents who live in fear of their kids and are unable to effectively parent them.
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Old 01-27-2005, 07:19 AM   #44
Variol (Farseer) Elmwood
Jack Burton
 

Join Date: May 16, 2003
Location: Dartmouth, NS Canada
Age: 52
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The world is full of low-lifes! I believe that they should be made to suffer the same fate! think this would be a good learning tool and a good deterant.
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Old 01-27-2005, 09:07 AM   #45
Vaskez
Takhisis Follower
 

Join Date: April 30, 2001
Location: szép Magyarország (well not right now)
Posts: 5,089
Quote:
Originally posted by Variol (Farseer) Elmwood:
The world is full of low-lifes! I believe that they should be made to suffer the same fate! think this would be a good learning tool and a good deterant.
Good idea! Let's always fight fire with fire, violence with violence. This way peace will have no chance at all, and the world will finally destroy itself completely! Great! [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] *groan*
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Old 01-27-2005, 09:09 AM   #46
Vaskez
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Join Date: April 30, 2001
Location: szép Magyarország (well not right now)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cerek:
quote:
Originally posted by Vaskez:
quote:
Originally posted by Cerek:
If someone every actually DID harm them...then I definitely would have no problem hunting them down and shooting them like a rabid dog.
Woops, there go your Christian principles (IIRC) out the window [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]You're right, Vaskez, that is a direct violation of my Christian principles. But I have acknowledged this before and I know from personal experience how I react when my children are threatened. Had that boy actually kicked my son in the face, I know for a fact that I would have slapped HIM in the face as hard as I could so HE could see what it felt like. Yet at the same time, I can admit (from a rational POV) that such an action is even more abhorrent because I am an adult and should have better control of my emotions. Still, even though I know it is wrong, I also know that is exactly what would have happened. I also freely acknowledge that I would have to answer for any such action when I stand in Judgement before God after my death.

But as Heiro pointed out, I am simply acknowledging my own "animalistic" response to a threat or danger to my child. None of us are perfect, and I recognize my weakness (from a Christian POV) in this situation.
[/QUOTE]Fair enough, I thought that's what you'd say, and I guess most people are the same
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Old 01-28-2005, 12:21 PM   #47
Violet
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Join Date: January 7, 2005
Location: Tucson,AZ
Age: 55
Posts: 161
Quote:
Originally posted by The Hierophant:
quote:
Originally posted by Violet:
Sometimes a deepeer look into the psyche of killers is just what we don't need.

But with all due respect, why? What are you afraid of? That it will someone 'corrupt' you or something? Forbidden knowledge?
[/QUOTE]Not at all! To me it just makes the person that much sicker and their actions that much more revolting. No need to create a list of evil deeds AFAIC when the one(s) they gained noteriety with are sick enough. Having my stomach turned repeatedly just isn't a hobby LOL
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Old 01-28-2005, 12:27 PM   #48
Violet
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Join Date: January 7, 2005
Location: Tucson,AZ
Age: 55
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Quote:
Originally posted by ladyzekke:
quote:
Originally posted by The Hierophant:
quote:
Originally posted by Violet:
Sometimes a deepeer look into the psyche of killers is just what we don't need.

But with all due respect, why? What are you afraid of? That it will someone 'corrupt' you or something? Forbidden knowledge?
[/QUOTE]I can't speak for Voilet, only myself. For me sometimes it can be too much, too much violence and death on the news, and you watch it every day, and sometimes if it goes indepth, re a killer's mind, it can just get overwhelming. It'd be an enigma if it happened rarely, we'd all be interested and curious how a person could do such a thing, but when you see sick stuff on the news everyday, it just gets to be too much, and kinda redundant. I.E., I do think people who are violent have a childhood past that may explain it. Some say, Oh but so-and-so had loving parents who doted on him, well I say even THAT can be wrong, if a parent has absolutely no discipline no matter what their kid does. Of course to me that also does not excuse, as we all have a choice what we are, what we do, in our lives. And I don't care if killers get the death penalty, or jail time, as long as they are taken out of the public, so as to not cause harm to more innocent people or animals or whatever.

Just gets so frustrating for me, seeing the news and all the f-'ed up things that go on, it really changes my thoughts re humanity. It is disheartening to say the least. But of course I also realize that the news likes to only show scandalous, intense things. I know civilized humanity still exists, and this is what I stand for. Screw "human nature" and all that crap, that is unevolved humans from the past. We learn ever year that goes by as humans, and evolve. Those that cannot control their emotions, and kill and do sick things to kittens, are to me, still in the caveman ages, unevolved, using basic animal instincts instead of human intellect, logic, and control. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
[/QUOTE]Well said ladyzekke. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
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Old 01-28-2005, 03:33 PM   #49
Cloudbringer
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Upstate NY USA
Posts: 19,736
Lady Z, that was a really good post and hits alot of things right on the button for me. I agree, sometimes I won't even turn the news on because I'm just tired of the horror stories and overwhelming 'bad' that they seem to churn out daily. It's a treat and something worth NOTING when a good story with a good outcome is there so maybe they've got their priorities backwards.


I can understand your POV, Cerek and I think it's fairly close to my husband's, but I also think he'd stop short of slapping someone else's kid. Having said that, I think he and I would both be apt to act on such a situation. He'd most likely do some yelling and intimidating of the teens/pre-teens doing the bullying. Me, I'd tell them exactly what they were doing wrong and march them to their parents to repeat the speech! Assaulting or bullying a small child like that means they need some more parental intervention and fast, as far as I'm concerned! MAYBE they won't grow up to be criminals or abuse their girlfriends, small animals and store clerks etc if they get help/guidance.... but maybe not. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 01-28-2005, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]
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