IWD2 - thoughts so far >

[jackal2513]

okay, ive seen the destroyed bridge, been back to teh town and just started out to meet the two other scouts and head for the fortress...

thoughts so far:

likes:

1) tough battles
2) battles that require thought & proper strategy (i am having to use a lot of entangle, conjured animanls etc.. NVN seriously lacked this)
3) better story/more involving than i expected
4) music is sensational, very arresting
5) same old engine, gets the job done and everything looks great as opposed to dodgy 3d which IMO doesnt work nearly as well for this genre

dislikes:

1) new D&D rules.. skills seem useless ! Dont like lack of weapon speed and also dont like no THACO, also dont like new armour ratings (dexterity ??). A some of the feats also seem useless as well and dont really impact on teh game.
2) some non-linearity would have been nice like BG2
3) they could/should have made things a little more adventurey/puzzly like when you need the invisibility potion to get inside the orc camp you are told that its in teh ruins ... would have been nicer if it was more of a mystery to solve and work out for yourself (i like games very hard). Having said that, ive read that there are some difficult puzzles later in the game.
4) journal is too simple, no "completed quests" section so it makes for tricky reading and deciphering
5) too much sleeping allowed - should be made harder with limited sleep places
6) a few more cut sequences/storytelling sequences would be nice....
7) manual seems bad, no tables etc.. and lots of stuff i cant figure out (like what will wisdom of 21+ on my druid actually do ?, what do all those armour bonses mean ?)

overall though a big thumbs up, im really absorbed .. cant wait to get home tonight and continue adventuring. Not as epic as BG2 in feel but the same gameplay which is important and not as story/atmosphere lacking as i was anticipating. Just proves how bad NWN is as a single player game. Only problem is what to play next... maybe planetscape torment as i never played that before... or even BG1 if i can stand to play at 640x480).

all comments welcome

[Madrigal Five]

Likes

1. I like the 3E rules. They make more sense to me. Example: Why get big DEX bonus to your AC when Plate Armor is kinda bulky and restrictive?

Dislikes:

1. Avatars: There's been some improvement here (shows thieves wearing armor) but they should have gone all the way with it, so when a mage or thief wears robes the avatar follows suit. Better still would be fully customizable avatars (the human mage always has a goatee).

[Nightowl2]

The Euro edition of the manual was cheaped out. Look on the CD for the missing info, such as the important tables. I believe the inside cover of the manual tells you exactly where.

Yeah, some feats are junk, but many are useful (depending on class). Same for skills.

THAC0 actually begins at 20. It's really same the tables, just with a little fiddling to make everything positive now. Work out the numbers and you'll see for yourself. I consider this one of the improvements in 3rd ed.

As for stats, every pair means another +1 bonus to whatever. At 20-21, the bonus is +5. When it gets up to 22, the bonus is +6. And so on. That applies to every attribute. The actual cap for stats is 40, but you won't be able to get that high, even with magic items.

Nightowl2

[Gimli]

"1) new D&D rules.. skills seem useless ! Dont like lack of weapon speed and also dont like no THACO, also dont like new armour ratings (dexterity ??). A some of the feats also seem useless as well and dont really impact on teh game."

Well there are definitely uses for skills - the talking ones for every time you get into conversations, the rogue ones to find/disarm traps, knowledge to identify things, etc etc. Some of them rarely get used though.

There really isn't a THAC0 anymore because of the rule changes; now an AC of 0 would be awful, the higher the better. The armor ratings with Dex do make sense, but they should have better heavier armors. And yeah some feats are also not the most useful.

"2) some non-linearity would have been nice like BG2"

Yep, there's not much room for variance off of the main plot line.

"3) they could/should have made things a little more adventurey/puzzly like when you need the invisibility potion to get inside the orc camp you are told that its in teh ruins ... would have been nicer if it was more of a mystery to solve and work out for yourself (i like games very hard). Having said that, ive read that there are some difficult puzzles later in the game."

Don't worry, if you like puzzles, you'll be happy later on [img]smile.gif[/img]

"4) journal is too simple, no "completed quests" section so it makes for tricky reading and deciphering"

Yeah, I liked NWN's journal better.

"5) too much sleeping allowed - should be made harder with limited sleep places"

There are some places where it's hard to impossible to sleep, but early in the game it's pretty easy.

"6) a few more cut sequences/storytelling sequences would be nice...."

They went one per chapter pretty much, would have been nice to have more for sure.

"7) manual seems bad, no tables etc.. and lots of stuff i cant figure out (like what will wisdom of 21+ on my druid actually do ?, what do all those armour bonses mean ?)"

It's too limited, too many things are not there that you have to find out about from descriptions that are only available once playing the game. Makes it hard to plan your 1st party solely from the manual.

[SpiritWarrior]

Well...overall I loved it! I had a one or two minor gripes but generally there were no *REAL* problems for me this time round. I think it's come a long way from Baldurs Gate (improvement-wise) and love the 3E rules, sleeker, faster and more realistic.

Some specific improvements/modifications I liked where:

1) The spell icons: Wow. I was so tired of looking at the chalk-on-stoneboard pink and blue. Some of the spell icons look really neat (have u seen the Summon Fiend spell its almost scary! Loved it)

2)The avatars: As mentioned above theres been some improvement there. I dual classed my Thief as a Druid and when she had amounted enough levels to pass out her Thief class my avatar changed to a cloaked Druid figure. This reflected knowledge of Druidry bypassing her Thief class. Cool.

3)Feats: Great. Brilliant way to customize your character. Yes some are 'useless' combatwise and add no real stat to things but this game is a *Roleplaying* game, some feats were there simply for our enjoyment and customization.

4)Class/Racial Detail: They really did pay attention to addressing the needs and details of specific classes this time. Take the Druid class for instance - they added a bunch of new nature-oriented spells which really brought the Druid character to life. Makes a change from the weak Druid class they had in previous games (In IWD1 a Druid was a Cleric who couldn't wear good armor). Some changes they made created a disadvantage in combat such as the Drow penalty for being in daytime sunlight - made it more realistic and believable.

5)Less Combat Protections: I hated the whole spellcaster protection thing in Baldurs gate 2. Wizards were invincible if your spellcasters did not have Breach. It became a riduculous game of 'dispel the protections' and it was no fun at all. The did away with alot of this here and focused more on enemy spellcasters having tactical advatages.

Things I disliked where:

1) Pathfinding: Oh god why...WHY?! I thought they sorted this in BG2! This was my main prob with this game and the ironic thing is they know how to fix it they just (obviously) didn't bother. The 'Improved pathfinding' option on the configuration box should be a must for all the IE games. They messed up here, took a step backward from where they had in BG2 and deserve to take the rap for it!

2)Occasional Unrealism: Ok this is one thing they need to watch. Meaningless and totally unrealistic puzzles for the sake of gameplay and time-killing. Example: The Ice temple - Firstly, can someone tell me why the &%@$ Nickademus created that damn lightening machine lock?! Don't wizards usually protect their stuff with magical passwords, traps or keys? Ok that I can deal with. But tell me how all these aurilite priestesses and their friends manage to roam and sit about the corridors of the temple and not get struck by lightening every time he opens the doors? This part of the story did not make sense simply because it was impractical. I'm all up for puzzles but once they have some believibility and reality to them.

3)I wanted more movies: The voiceovers at the beginning of every chapter got old after a time and the ending/closing was....dissapointing and after hacking through hundreds of monsters and foes alike I expected something worthy of my effort.

[ 11-14-2002, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: SpiritWarrior ]

[Kygon-Jo]

I like creating My own party. no forced NPC. Although I liked Minsk. LOL.
3rd edition rules. I like the feat system not the skill system.

I miss the Class Kits. Like Archer.

I miss the potion of speed.

I use it.. but I must agree there you are allowed to rest to often.

I really think the the assortment of Magic weapons available rocks. So Many weapons I will never be able to use them all.

Overall rating AWESOME. I am enjoying this game a lot. I hope black isle makes an expansion pack and allows character import.

[MasterPooBaa]

What i didnt really like was the Harsh EXP cap!
It made it pretty worthless to create some more exotic double triple or quadrouple characters. So much for my elven Fighter/mage/thief or Ranger/Mage/Cleric.

[Luvian]

There are Kits in 3rd edition, they are called prestige class, and they are actually better than 2nd edition kits. They just where not used in this game, that disapointed me too.

As for the xp cap. This game is based on Dungeon and Dragon, and in both 2nd and 3rd edition, there was such a level cap. If you want versatility, you must accept losing some power. There are no godlike characters, that's exactly why they did the level cap.

[Callum Kerr]

The XP cap makes sense if you think about it. I mean, you there is only a limited amount of time that you can learn new skills in. The XP cap is only a real problem if you play HOF twice anyway. I like the range of weapons, and spells. I personally think that the 3rd edition feats, skills system is excellent - even if some of them are useless. I miss the kits too, but I have to admit that it stopped me from customizing my characters in IWD (I'm the laziest person I know).
The avatars could definitely be improved. How on earth is it conceivable that every mage of a specific race has the same haircut? Or fighters, or rogues etc. Is it some kind of artisan symbol, like the Romans had with different coloured togas (I think - histories not a strong point). But the robes DO show up on my mage at least. He got an extra layer of clothing (in the same colour of course) complete with folded down hood. BUT it was barely noticeable.
I don't do this for the difficulty though, just for the excitement of meeting new people etc.
The game rules in my opinion

[jackal2513]

hmmm.... talking of sleeping, I had to sleep lots last night.

Before you get inside the goblin fortress theres this cave in teh SE that you have to go into which leads to another screen. The first battle there with a massive horde of goblins (including lethal elite archers) was pretty heavy I have to say, I ended up having to change all my spells rouns then re-sleep and then do some damage using alot of summoned monsters, go outside the cave, sleep again then return back in and re-summon loads of stuff again. It was a pretty tough battle !