Asylum seekers - what should be done?

[Moridin]

I'll take a stab at stepping on a few toes

In Minnesota the problem is the Hmong. They came from Cambodia initially on authorization by the Federal Government because they were allies of the US during the Vietnam War. They were allowed to bring their immediate families over, and eventually their blood relatives.

Like I said I have no problem with the initial point of allowing the veterans and their family to make their home in the US. The problem I do have is this. The Hmong in the Twin Cities have made NO attempt to accept American culture! The only ones that speak any sort of english are the generation that is in HS now. The Hmong elders (a group of elderly men that form an elder society in each Hmong neighborhood) forbid the use of english in any Hmong home. If the elders find out that English is being used then that family could be excommunicated from the neighborhood. The elders also forbid any Hmong from marrying (or even dating) outside of the Hmong. This is very strictly enforced, there have been a few times when it has made the local news, about a Hmong boy or girl that has been kicked out of the family b/c they wish to date a white/black/chinese/etc...
They also have a tradition of the husband slaughtering animals during the wife's pregnancy both for sacraficial purposes and to provide the wife with 'fresh' meat and blood. No problem with this in general, but they keep these animals in the basement of their homes (pigs and chickens) and a few 'slaughter' houses have been set up right in the neighborhoods.

My point is the same that was made in a previous post. If you are going to come to a new country, you should at least make an attempt to adopt their culture (language, laws...) you do not have to give up your culture, but you cannot come here and expect it to be the same as in your homeland, as unfortunate as that may be!

I intend no offense and I am not picking on the Hmong, I know this stuff b/c I have a few Hmong friends and even they find it ridiculous sometimes!

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Proud member of the Lecherous Hillbillies...oh no wait the Laughing Hyenas

[Billikins the Bold]

Originally posted by Epona: Unfortunately it was announced (yesterday I think?) that the government will not abolish vouchers after all, as they can find 'no viable alternative'. Sick.

No viable alternative... What about cash?



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Fear? I know not the meaning of the word. And you can keep that dictionary away from me!

[AzureWolf]

Dont know if you Aussies know this, but here in NZ on the news every night they are going on about how much of a dick John Howard is (well he is!) and that Australia is inhumnane, now dont get me wrong i know the reasons behind not letting them in and i agree with some of them. But this is how australia is being portrayed right now.

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"I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by AzureWolf: Dont know if you Aussies know this, but here in NZ on the news every night they are going on about how much of a dick John Howard is (well he is!) and that Australia is inhumnane, now dont get me wrong i know the reasons behind not letting them in and i agree with some of them. But this is how australia is being portrayed right now.

John Howard is playing a very dangerous game, taking the hard line that he is. His reasons for taking the stance he is taking are understandable from a political perspective, because realpolitik have always been about national interests, and it's in Australia's national interest to not set a precedent here. From a humanitarian point of view it's very callous and inhumane to be haggling over the fates of 468 fellow human beings as if they were pieces of meat. Australia should bite the bullet, take them in to be processed as they can't just be cast adrift in the open sea, Indonesia (which was their last port of call!) and Australia (and perhaps NZ) should divvy them up, then Australia should step up patrols to prevent more incidents like this.

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[This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 08-31-2001).]

[Avatar]

Asylum Seekers should not CHOOSE where they want to go. Their only and primary objective should be safety.
Give it an inch and it will push for feets.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Memnoch: John Howard is playing a very dangerous game, taking the hard line that he is. His reasons for taking the stance he is taking are understandable from a political perspective, because realpolitik have always been about national interests, and it's in Australia's national interest to not set a precedent here. From a humanitarian point of view it's very callous and inhumane to be haggling over the fates of 468 fellow human beings as if they were pieces of meat. Australia should bite the bullet, take them in to be processed as they can't just be cast adrift in the open sea, Indonesia (which was their last port of call!) and Australia (and perhaps NZ) should divvy them up, then Australia should step up patrols to prevent more incidents like this.

This article appeared in today's edition of The Times Fortress Australia

It certainly doesn't paint a pretty picture of conditions in the detention centres. The Immigation minister, Philip Ruddock, let the cat out of the bag when asked about the atrocious conditions 'The message gets back'.

I also found his other comment revealing. He said Australia would do all it could to assist displaced Zimbabwean farmers to start newer, safer lives. No mention of processing applications or detention centres. Then again they're white.

One other interesting stat. 3.6 million Afghanis have fled the Taleban. 2.5 million have gone to Pakistan, 1 million to Iran and only 100,000 to the industrialised countries.


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Save Chip - Don't let Sarah win!
Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas
Go for it Sven!
Granite, Limestone, Igneous, Marble and Sandstone.

[This message has been edited by Donut (edited 08-31-2001).]

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Donut: One other interesting stat. 3.6 million Afghanis have fled the Taleban. 2.5 million have gone to Pakistan, 1 million to Iran and only 100,000 to the industrialised countries.

Why is this an interesting stat? So what if 100,000 have gove to Industrialized nations. Does that mean we didn't allow more, or does it simply mean no more wanted to come? If I were in Afghanastan and had to flee I would probably go to Pakistan or Iran too!

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Proud member of the Lecherous Hillbillies...oh no wait the Laughing Hyenas

I am sure Australia has room for a few hundred thousend Asylem seekers...I mean your population is what ... about 25 million and your Country is HUGE! I know most of it is uninhabitable but never the less you must! have plenty of room...look at us here in Britain ....some of your Farms are nearly as big as Wales and we have a population of 60 million and we take Asylem seekers by the thousends almost weekly it seems. We do not! have the room for them 60 million is the limit in my opinion, we can't take many more. France really needs to stop them getting over here...please tell me if I am missing something but whats wrong with them staying in France ....it's a nice country you have about the same population as us yet you have a lot more room than we do. Why do they even want to come to England so badly...it's the hardest place to get to bar Australia I would imagine so why!

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"The beginning of eternity.
The end of time and space.
The start of every end,
And the end of every place."

[Donut]

Originally posted by Moridin: Why is this an interesting stat? So what if 100,000 have gove to Industrialized nations. Does that mean we didn't allow more, or does it simply mean no more wanted to come? If I were in Afghanastan and had to flee I would probably go to Pakistan or Iran too!

I think it's interesting because one of the reasons often given for not accepting refugees is that other Muslim countries do nothing to help there own.

[DEADMAN]

Illegal Immigration and asylum seekers are always a touchy subject, and I wold like to apologize in advance if i unitentionaly hurt or anger someone. After reading the posts I would like to make some comments.

On seafaring, Captains are obligated by international maritime law to answer a distress call.

On immigrants not trying to fit in, this annoys the hell out of me. I love diversity and enjoying the flavors of the nationalities around me, trying diffrent things. But c'mon your not in home country any more, put some effort into fitting in. Too many find a little community from home and act like nothings changed, but it has !

On learning english,I give them crddit for just trying to learn as this is one of the most difficult languages in the world. There isn't one consist6ant rule and with the prevalence of slang, it is almost impossible to learn grammaticaly correct english ( Try this with any language, start learning then go to a minority community and see what happens). This is my primary language and I am still amazed by how badly "native speakers" butcher it !

I live in CA and like the rest of the western world, we are affected by this problem as well. There realy is no answer that works for this problem. The humanitarian in everyone goes out to the people, but the reality is there is only a finite number of resourses to use. Public figures on a media blitzed situation are realy in a tough spot on this with the easy way out being to deny entry unless they have a REALY GOOD "bleeding heart story", especialy in a recession. Everybody complains here that there taking our jobs here were in reality they wouldnt touch those jobs unless they tripled the wages and gave benefits. But I digress, On a practical level, what are you getting for the investment, what skills are they bringing in ? Illegal immigration doesn't put anything back because they dont pay taxes but drain the social system. On asylum cases your REALY stuck, our answer to chinese boat people has been to stop the boats from entering our harbors. The ships that do get to port they detain the people and look at all the cases, with alot of them being deported.The sad part of all this is that in the US were all immigrants, there is no natural people here, everyone migrated and besides all the prejudice throughout history immigration is what makes the US strong. Because the people who immigrate tend to be the best and most driven of thier society. I know in practicality that the most powerful nations of the world can't take everyone but you just wish you could.

And for those curious about my rant my dad immigrated to the country leaving my mother, my new born sister and me at 2 to see if he can create a life for his family, breaking his back for two years to earn enough to start a business and bring his family over. and on my peeve on people who wont beome part of the culture, I include everybody, even my former countrymen because i chose to be an American.