All drow party - purely role-playing

[Callum Kerr]

Drow are level two?!!!!! WHAt the hell!!! but they are feared across the realms... they can beat a dwarf in one on one combat, so they must be higher than that... and dwarfs are easily superior to most of the monsters around in IWD2...

[Luvian]

Dwarf are level 1 in average. In novels and we always see the main characters doing the fighting, that's why you get the impression that all of them are high levels. It's just that the novels concentrate on the small part of the population that is higher in level than the average character.

Did you know that Jarlaxle is a level 17 fighter, or that Gromph Baerne, the greatest drow wizard, is in fact level 20? Drizzt is a Fighter10/Barbarian1/Ranger5

[timberwolf]

Where did u guys get all the info on those noval char's stats?
Drizzt seems to be more powerful that those stats stated. Well at least thats what Salvatore lead me to believe [img]smile.gif[/img] But he did went thru a lot of experience from underdark to the surface world.

[Luvian]

Those are his latest stats, just before the newest novel A thousand orcs.

Drizzt seem strong because novelist cheats in order to make an epic story. Do you remember when Drizzt just got ouf of the underdark and killed Ertu with one blow of his frost scimitar? Well that's impossible. Even if he really did get impaled in the scimitar, following the rules he would get regular damages, or a regular Dm might desctibe that kind of wound on a critical hit. It certainly would NOT kill such a demon...

It's about how he tell the events too. I could write a story based on a level 1 thief with 9 in every stats, and make him seem like the greatest warrior of all time.

When Drizzt came out to the surface, he was like a level 4-5 fighter/1 barbarian If I remember well. He got his barbarian level in the underdark when he spent all that time alone. He started getting rangers levels a little after that.

Edit: Oh, and by the way, you might think level 20 seem week, but did you know that for the longest time, level 20 was the max level in D&D pen and paper game? You could get a little higher in 2nd edition, but the game was based on a level 20 character being one of the greatest character of all time.

In third edition they came out with rules for higher level characters, and raised the "soft cap" to level 30. If you are basing your idea of power based on CRPG, you won't get the real idea on how D&D really is. Baldur's Gate II and Throne of Bhall are totally not respecting the rules. Looking at those games, it would seem that every lowly guard and peasant is a level 50 warrior/60 mage with a few artifact in his possesion. The same could be said of Icewind Dale II I guess. The only D&D crpg that was balanced as it should is Baldur's Gate one.

[ 11-26-2002, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

[timberwolf]

Hey Luvian, how's the book a thousand orcs? I nearly bought it the other day and have regretted since. (Not enough cash to satisfy my ever growing lust for stuff so have to drop the book [img]smile.gif[/img] )

Ok back on the stats stuff. My argument is that he can't be that low a level when he is the best in Menzoberranzan (fighting skills wise) and was suppose to be a weapon master for his house. An equal to his mentor which drop high priestess like flies :0. My thinking was like level 15+ fighter when he left the underdark and gain his ranger skill from the blind guy (forgot his name) Maybe another 5+ level.

[Luvian]

That's because you are assuming that every drow is high level. The typical weapon master is maybe level 5-6 at max. The high matron might have been bwtween level 9-15.

Those are the official stats released by TSR, when looking at stats, you have to take the following into account:

levels in a pc class:
1= in a pc class: a very special individual. Like maybe 10% of the population is that. Except the drow, all of them are level 2 in a pc class. That's what make them dangerous.
2-5= a higly skilled character, he might be the camptain of a city's guard, of a lieutenant in a big army
5-10= one of the greatest individual. He might be the general of the biggest army, a very powerfull mage that spent his life gaining power. (Did you know that an npc mage will probably hit that level in his last days of life? that's why they picture all mages as very old)
10-15=Legendary heroes. Those characters have songs about them. They fough so much monsters, and made so many quest, that everyone in the same continaent know of them.
15-20= Those characters are very very rare. Maybe 1% of the total population ever get this level. Think Conan, Merlin,...
20+ Almost god. Those characters kill dragons as warmup. They saved the world more time than they can count to, they are powerfull enough to cause trouble to a god. They have so much ressource that they could take over a kingdom in a few days if no one else like them is there to stop them. They are know throughout the planes.

[Madrigal Five]

Originally posted by Luvian: Oh, and by the way, you might think level 20 seem week, but did you know that for the longest time, level 20 was the max level in D&D pen and paper game? You could get a little higher in 2nd edition, but the game was based on a level 20 character being one of the greatest character of all time.

???
1st Edition ADnD didn't have a level cap. True, 20th level was already pretty powerful, but there was no strict cap. In 1st edition rules, Elminster and Khelben Arunsun are both 21+ level and the Simbul was 27th. If you're talking about DnD (without the "advanced") levels capped at 36.

I don't have the 3E stats for Drizzt, but it doesn't make any sense to me why he has any Barbarian levels at all now. And with the level distribution like that (Fighter10/Barbarian1/Ranger5), I guess that means Drizzt suffers a 20% XP penalty.

[ 11-19-2002, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Madrigal Five ]

[timberwolf]

I really like that phrase kill dragons as warmup......
Thanks for the lvl explanation. I have learned much (Exp gain +1 level) [img]smile.gif[/img]

I will go whip my fighter butt now as he is level 23 and can't kick a goblin's ass in HOF..........

[Luvian]

Originally posted by Madrigal Five: quote: Originally posted by Luvian: Oh, and by the way, you might think level 20 seem week, but did you know that for the longest time, level 20 was the max level in D&D pen and paper game? You could get a little higher in 2nd edition, but the game was based on a level 20 character being one of the greatest character of all time.

???
1st Edition ADnD didn't have a level cap. True, 20th level was already pretty powerful, but there was no strict cap. In 1st edition rules, Elminster and Khelben Arunsun are both 21+ level and the Simbul was 27th. If you're talking about DnD (without the "advanced") levels capped at 36.

I don't have the 3E stats for Drizzt, but it doesn't make any sense to me why he has any Barbarian levels at all now. And with the level distribution like that (Fighter10/Barbarian1/Ranger5), I guess that means Drizzt suffers a 20% XP penalty.[/QUOTE]I didn't say it was the cap, but the game was balanced taking into account that level 20 chars where the best. How many first or second edition book/quest do you know that where made for level 20+ characters, or even had a place for them? All handbooks and quests where made for characters lower in level than that.

Up to third edition, getting higher than level 20 was just an afterthough. It was not really planed. But in third edition, they balanced the game from the start to allow characters that can get higher in level than that. And to balance things furter, every level after 20 follow different rules. But even then, it still follow the table I posted. Level 20+ characters are VERY VERY rare. In the Forgotten Realm setting, there is like 10 or so known epic level characters.

You don't know why Drizzt has a barbarian level!? Don't you remember when he was in the underdark for years in the first trilogy, and he kept saying how he was starting to turn into the "slayer", a mindless killing machine. Oh, and Drizzt didn't read the player's handbook before triple clasing, so he didn't know he would have an xp penalty.

[Luvian]

Originally posted by timberwolf: I will go whip my fighter butt now as he is level 23 and can't kick a goblin's ass in HOF..........

The other day my rogue was sneaking on an HOF goblin, and he smelled like cheese, VERY VERY stong cheese...