living off the grid

IAmThumper · 08-22-2003, 01:16 PM

I've been thinking about the idea of "living off the grid" now for many years and recent events have made me think a little harder about it. Don't get me wrong I in no way want to go off and become a hermit or anything like that I just mean becomming more self-sufficient. Living off the grid means your house/home is completely or near-completely self-sufficient utility-wise.
An example of which is electricity. Making your home more energy efficient and installing solar panels(as an example) can make your home more self-sufficient or even completely off the grid (not depend on energy companies!). I've even heard of people whose homes generate extra power which they then sell back to the energy company in effect getting paid by the energy company instead of paying them.
I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on "living off the grid"? What solutions/technologies are out there. In particular any solutions that aren't heard of often, and links to good sources of information.
I've been looking for sites on which you can order/buy solar panels but all I've been able to find are sites that don't look too reputable or look out of date.

harleyquinn · 08-22-2003, 01:27 PM

Try looking for copies of "Mother Earth News". They give you lots of ideas about how to do this type of thing and other earth friendly ideas.

Rokenn · 08-22-2003, 01:36 PM

Damn hippies! Stay on the grid! You are going to mess up my stock portfolio [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Thoran · 08-22-2003, 01:52 PM

The guys that are REALLY cool are the outlaw power gang... they generate all their own electrictity but instead of speanding tens of thousands on batteries for storage they hack into the grid and use our electrical system as a big battery. Pump electricity into the system during the day... pull it out at night.

How they do this without getting caught I have no idea, but it's damn cool.

08-22-2003, 01:54 PM

I have been researching this for several months now (for my parents) and now for my self. Right now the only places that are really making the idea of Solar power attractive are out west. The east coast is kind of short on companies that are specializing in the equipment. I have also found that to be totally off the grid would take roughly $50,000 to $60,000 dollars in equipment and that does not account for maintenance and upkeep. Basicly it would cost too much for my parents to see a return on their investment. I think it worked out to taking roughly 25 or 30 years to pay for itself...longer than either of them most likely has to live.

A partial setup costing roughly $20,000 to $30,000 and I would still depend on the grid for half my power. True self sufficiency is really very expensive if you are going to live a "normal" life.

Some people can go out in the boonies and live like old time frontiersmen...but I like my hot showers, big screen TV and multiple computers [img]smile.gif[/img]

Rokenn · 08-22-2003, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thoran:
The guys that are REALLY cool are the outlaw power gang... they generate all their own electrictity but instead of speanding tens of thousands on batteries for storage they hack into the grid and use our electrical system as a big battery. Pump electricity into the system during the day... pull it out at night.

How they do this without getting caught I have no idea, but it's damn cool.

In California you can do this without a problem, as a matter of fact the law specifically says the utilities must let you do this. Meters will run forward or backward. So during the day when you are not at home and your solar grid produces more then you use it gets fed into the local grid and your meter will spin backwards. Then at night you will draw energy from the grid as normal. If you work it right your bill could even end up with a credit. The only thing that is required is that your home have a double breaker setup. Otherwise if there is a blackout in your area and you are pumping electricity into the local lines you could end up injuring/killing an electrical worker.

edit:spelling

[ 08-22-2003, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Rokenn ]

IAmThumper · 08-22-2003, 03:19 PM

What I was thinking for myself, when and if I ever do buy a house, was some solar panels on the roof or in the yard (depending on whether they would be safe from vandals) and a geo-thermal furnace. I'm origionally from Ontario and the price of hydro has gone crazy lately not to mention the recent power outages. It would be nice to have the basics covered (heat, frig, hot water, and basic lighting).
All the sites on the web I've looked at don't show any prices. Most likely they don't want to scare you! You would think that with rising costs of utilities more and more people would start using alternate sources and then prices would go down on solar panels and what not but I'm beginning to think it's just as expensive now as it was ten years ago.

Rokenn · 08-22-2003, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IAmThumper:
What I was thinking for myself, when and if I ever do buy a house, was some solar panels on the roof or in the yard (depending on whether they would be safe from vandals) and a geo-thermal furnace. I'm origionally from Ontario and the price of hydro has gone crazy lately not to mention the recent power outages. It would be nice to have the basics covered (heat, frig, hot water, and basic lighting).
All the sites on the web I've looked at don't show any prices. Most likely they don't want to scare you! You would think that with rising costs of utilities more and more people would start using alternate sources and then prices would go down on solar panels and what not but I'm beginning to think it's just as expensive now as it was ten years ago.

As I aluded to in my response to Thoran, the cost is not just what the panels cost but also integrating them into your home's electrical system and putting in safe guards so you do not feed power back into the gird during a local blackout. If you call around to some local shops that do installations they could give you ballpark figure, but an extact amount would depend on many variables.

Thoran · 08-22-2003, 03:26 PM

Another thing to consider if you're burning wood (or in an area where that's feasable) for heat is a co-gen setup... they can be VERY efficient and payback in years instead of decades.

Heat, hot water, and electricity from a single rig... pretty neat stuff.

I've got an Aunt and Uncle who've been off the grid for 30 years, they've got the solar/battery setup. It's not quite as bad as you think, they've got a 24v system that includes a frige, lighting, and maybe a little hot water heater. It IS expensive to get going though... the frige alone was mucho bucks. They're a couple of aging hippies and just installed indoor plumbing, getting to old to use the outhouse in the winter. [img]smile.gif[/img]

IAmThumper · 08-22-2003, 03:35 PM

Well in Canada I've heard of some people (I think on the East Coast) that put up gaints wind-mills to generate electricity and since they aren't associated with the power company they get charged a yearly fee to pump power into the power grid. I think it was 500 dollars which I suppose would be okay if you were doing it on a large scale. But as just a regular person that would be a hefty amount.

As an aside to those that don't know what a geo-thermal furnace is. The idea is that at a certain distance underground the earth is a constant temp and by pumping water into the earth and back you can either take heat from the earth into your home or the other way around. It's environmentally friendy since it's a closed system that won't pollute (depends on power source I suppose). The system constantly circulates air through the home making the home a constant temperature not like a gas furnace in which the temperature goes up and down. It's supposedly 60% more efficient than a conventional furnace.

08-22-2003, 01:27 PM	#2
harleyquinn Symbol of Cyric Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: NY Age: 48 Posts: 1,190	Try looking for copies of "Mother Earth News". They give you lots of ideas about how to do this type of thing and other earth friendly ideas. __________________ [img]\"http://www.bethspage.us/sig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" />

08-22-2003, 01:36 PM	#3
Rokenn Galvatron Join Date: January 22, 2002 Location: california wine country Age: 60 Posts: 2,193	Damn hippies! Stay on the grid! You are going to mess up my stock portfolio [img]tongue.gif[/img] __________________ “This is an impressive crowd, the haves and the have mores. <br />Some people call you the elite. <br />I call you my base.”<br />~ George W. Bush (2000)

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08-22-2003, 01:16 PM	#1
IAmThumper Dungeon Master Join Date: May 19, 2003 Location: Woodstock, Ontario, Canada Age: 50 Posts: 93	I've been thinking about the idea of "living off the grid" now for many years and recent events have made me think a little harder about it. Don't get me wrong I in no way want to go off and become a hermit or anything like that I just mean becomming more self-sufficient. Living off the grid means your house/home is completely or near-completely self-sufficient utility-wise. An example of which is electricity. Making your home more energy efficient and installing solar panels(as an example) can make your home more self-sufficient or even completely off the grid (not depend on energy companies!). I've even heard of people whose homes generate extra power which they then sell back to the energy company in effect getting paid by the energy company instead of paying them. I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on "living off the grid"? What solutions/technologies are out there. In particular any solutions that aren't heard of often, and links to good sources of information. I've been looking for sites on which you can order/buy solar panels but all I've been able to find are sites that don't look too reputable or look out of date.

08-22-2003, 01:52 PM	#4
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 56 Posts: 2,109	The guys that are REALLY cool are the outlaw power gang... they generate all their own electrictity but instead of speanding tens of thousands on batteries for storage they hack into the grid and use our electrical system as a big battery. Pump electricity into the system during the day... pull it out at night. How they do this without getting caught I have no idea, but it's damn cool.

08-22-2003, 01:54 PM	#5
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	I have been researching this for several months now (for my parents) and now for my self. Right now the only places that are really making the idea of Solar power attractive are out west. The east coast is kind of short on companies that are specializing in the equipment. I have also found that to be totally off the grid would take roughly $50,000 to $60,000 dollars in equipment and that does not account for maintenance and upkeep. Basicly it would cost too much for my parents to see a return on their investment. I think it worked out to taking roughly 25 or 30 years to pay for itself...longer than either of them most likely has to live. A partial setup costing roughly $20,000 to $30,000 and I would still depend on the grid for half my power. True self sufficiency is really very expensive if you are going to live a "normal" life. Some people can go out in the boonies and live like old time frontiersmen...but I like my hot showers, big screen TV and multiple computers [img]smile.gif[/img]

08-22-2003, 03:19 PM	#7
IAmThumper Dungeon Master Join Date: May 19, 2003 Location: Woodstock, Ontario, Canada Age: 50 Posts: 93	What I was thinking for myself, when and if I ever do buy a house, was some solar panels on the roof or in the yard (depending on whether they would be safe from vandals) and a geo-thermal furnace. I'm origionally from Ontario and the price of hydro has gone crazy lately not to mention the recent power outages. It would be nice to have the basics covered (heat, frig, hot water, and basic lighting). All the sites on the web I've looked at don't show any prices. Most likely they don't want to scare you! You would think that with rising costs of utilities more and more people would start using alternate sources and then prices would go down on solar panels and what not but I'm beginning to think it's just as expensive now as it was ten years ago.

08-22-2003, 03:26 PM	#9
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 56 Posts: 2,109	Another thing to consider if you're burning wood (or in an area where that's feasable) for heat is a co-gen setup... they can be VERY efficient and payback in years instead of decades. Heat, hot water, and electricity from a single rig... pretty neat stuff. I've got an Aunt and Uncle who've been off the grid for 30 years, they've got the solar/battery setup. It's not quite as bad as you think, they've got a 24v system that includes a frige, lighting, and maybe a little hot water heater. It IS expensive to get going though... the frige alone was mucho bucks. They're a couple of aging hippies and just installed indoor plumbing, getting to old to use the outhouse in the winter. [img]smile.gif[/img]

08-22-2003, 03:35 PM	#10
IAmThumper Dungeon Master Join Date: May 19, 2003 Location: Woodstock, Ontario, Canada Age: 50 Posts: 93	Well in Canada I've heard of some people (I think on the East Coast) that put up gaints wind-mills to generate electricity and since they aren't associated with the power company they get charged a yearly fee to pump power into the power grid. I think it was 500 dollars which I suppose would be okay if you were doing it on a large scale. But as just a regular person that would be a hefty amount. As an aside to those that don't know what a geo-thermal furnace is. The idea is that at a certain distance underground the earth is a constant temp and by pumping water into the earth and back you can either take heat from the earth into your home or the other way around. It's environmentally friendy since it's a closed system that won't pollute (depends on power source I suppose). The system constantly circulates air through the home making the home a constant temperature not like a gas furnace in which the temperature goes up and down. It's supposedly 60% more efficient than a conventional furnace.

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