Dual-Classing... Is it as bad as it looks?

[thysst]

OK, so I was spoiled by Wiz 5 & 6, being able to switch back and forth between two classes while powering up skills. Granted, it was cheesy.

Making it so you continue on the exp chart as if you were your full level is a good solution for that.

I noticed when I switched over, however, that I could no longer add to skills from the other class. For instance, switching from Samurai to Fighter, you can't add to critical strike.

It won't be so bad, *assuming* that you can notch it from use, but I don't seem to be doing that either.

Can you notch skills from a previous class like that?

[Gimli]

No, they're frozen in a situation like that one.

that's why, typically, people who recommend dual-class switches say to do it either a) after you've gotten any class-specific skills to a high enough level that you'll happy with them staying that way , or b) switching between classes that have some overlap in those skills.

as an example of the former, some people will switch a bard to fighter after they get to level 18 and have a music skill of 95+, so that they can use all the weapons at maximum effectiveness, but gain access to fighter weapons, armour, and beserking capability.

as an example of the latter, atlus 7 recommends dual classing ninja to ranger, where you run your ninja's critical strike and stealth up high while working bow and dual-nunchucks. when you switch to ranger, you can no longer raise critical or stealth, but you can use bows (with the ranger's critical bonus), and you can use dual maces (mauler/diamond eyes) with the added benefit of the ninja's critical strike skill. AND they both use the alchemy spell book.

in general, the opinion seems to be that dual classing is not worth it. particularly for spell casters who rely on experience level for spell effectiveness. however, there are exceptions, as noted above, and there are those who believe otherwise.

good luck as you search for yourself - let us know what you find!

[Loudhy]

In addition to Sultan I believe it is a good way to start with a mage and
then switch him to a bishop ( in my games I usually do that at lvl 10) . A mage develops faster than a bishop and later you only lose the wizardry bonus. After
that I train my bishop in a second realm and I think that's better than beginning with a bishop because I like to have the offensive spells early in the game.

I also like to switch my Dwarf Priest ( with mace skill) to a Lord . My Lord
later uses Diamond Eyes and Wand and both are skills the priest have. I like
to wait up to lvl 11 or 12 because I want to finish the swamp first and kill those Rynjin who blocked the tunnel to Bayjin (Soulshield). After that I make
the switch. At this time my Gadgeteer is able to create 'Armorplate' and my Lord can cast the priest spells high enough to help me through his first 5 levels.

Are there other interesting suggestions ?

[Scatter]

I'm currently in a solo, and the development has been: Alchemist L1; Ranger L2,3,4; Rogue L5; Bishop Ls 6-9; Mage L10; Ranger L11; Bishop Ls 12 to now (14 as of this post), planning on returning to Ranger at L16 (if i go Ranger sooner, i'll delay Portal by a level: My caster level is quite interesting, in Wiz and Alc i'm a level ahead of Psi and Div, but i've been able to learn spells that are BOTH Wiz and Alc one level earlier than those that are just one of those, while Div and Psi are another level behind (unless combined with Wiz/Alc). The Mage level was to K-K practise the Wizardry up to make it work that way.
I started as an Alchemist for the immediate ability to mix potions and cast heal (starting with 15 Alc), and also the extra Dex, which is always my first 100. I took a Human, because i wanted to have the most Attribute points. When i return to Ranger total Character level will determine my mods in combat and resistance, as though i'd been a Ranger the whole time. I did a similar progression with Bard-to-Ranger, but i found i really missed X-Ray (and Portal took longer), so this time i decided for enough Bishop levels for that, and to get Soul Shield up to acceptable reliability at PL4 (enough resistance with 100 in Mental and an Amulet of Healing)
L11 was my Dual-Wield/Close/Mace practise level, driving Dual up to 80 with hammers against Metalic Slimes (so little damage i got enough whacks per slime it only took a total of around 20, and a couple dozen assorted rats and 3 Emeralds) This made it possible to get enough whacks per round to survive being a Bishop.
I'm mostly a run-close-and-slash type; with tiny parties you want the most damage you can get out of a round, and (esp if i get a Light) melee is the way to do that. But i did practise with a sling some on the dummies on the Rocket range, and with a Musket as a Ranger on some Blooddrinkers in the Swamp (intending on getting a Phaser--yes Ranger instawhack adds to the 5 on it)...
The early Ranger levels make it possible to survive, and help immensly with HP, too, always kinda drastic in a solo.
The hardest part is making it out of that first level. I started a Fighter out of the Start menu, and repeated until there was a dagger in the chest on the beach, and recycled to Alchemist before killing anything. I used the nice Fighter armor and shield, and the door, to survive the crabs and slimes and dragged the first random spawn to the door (more Greens). Coulda been in Ironmode--haven't been killed yet. But i want to be able to reload Jan-Ette.

[ 09-24-2003, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: Scatter ]

my wife has dual-classed valk to fighter after level 11, with the purpose of the valk getting the range of heal and rest spells available, but then opening up the faster-level ups of the fighter. since she had other spell-casters, including priest-book coverage, the valk was just supporting anyway.

another commonly mentioned dual is bishop to hybrid, usually sam or ranger, for the purpose of gaining access to the infinity helm. but on top of the slower bishop levels already passed, you also lose 4 levels as a caster until the sam/ranger gets past their hump.

i've done rogue to samurai in an effort to take advantage of the rogue's stealth to boost the sam's armour rating. but, since i dont train, it was much too late to take advantage of the sam's spellcasting, meaning he was just a poor fighter. (imo, the best samurai in the game is a felpurr rogue wielding dual stilleto or fang/stilleto).

bard to rogue is also playable, switching around level 11, to only take the low-level bard items, but retaining continuity on locks/traps and opening stealth.

someone on the board also mentioned faerie bishop to ninja after 18 levels. you'd have someone with every spell and weilding the cane. sounds pretty nasty to me - for the enemies!

[Gimli]

I like Valk to Fighter as well, I have done it a couple of times - I would wait until level 15 so she'd get the Portal spell before I switched. There are also a few polearms (Dread Spear for example) that give +20 to the polearm skill, so eventually the +25 Valk bonus starts getting wasted by the 125 skill cap. Basically if you want more melee damage from the Valk and are satisfied she has enough preist skill there's not much downside to switching over to fighter, and the beserk attack option is a huge melee upside.

For casters, I started liking the idea of having 2 bishops and have each work on 2 schools of magic. So for example have one who handles Alchemy and Psionics. Then I would pick which of those 2 schools he'd be better with and start him with one level of that class (will make him alot less casting-challenged than a 1st level bishop); then switch to Bishop and go for 18 levels; then switch back to the class he started as (picking back up that +25 to the realm skill as well).

[webbing]

New to the board so please be gentle (unlike the monsters in the swamp). I'm really trying to follow some of the topics here. When you folks refer to things like "I usually do that at lvl 10" or "Alchemist L1; Ranger L2,3,4; Rogue L5; Bishop Ls 6-9; Mage L10; Ranger L11" I really get confused. What does this mean? The second quote sounds to me like he has 8 PCs. When you refer to a level is that the characters actual level or a casting level or some combination of things?

Confused

webbing

[dplax]

let me be the first to welcome you to the boards webbing
what I think scatter referred to was that at level up number one he levels up as an alchemist, 2, 3, 4 he levels up as ranger and so on

[ 09-24-2003, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: dplax ]

[webbing]

Originally posted by dplax: let me be the first to welcome you to the boards webbing what I think scatter referred to was that at level up number one he levels up as an alchemist, 2, 3, 4 he levels up as ranger and so on

Well thank you dplax! I think I understand what you mean but he said that he was currently at... Hense my confusion, again though when you talk about lvl or L is that referring to the PC Level or skill level?

Thanks

Webbing