The War Is On!

[LennonCook]

From the images the media has fed us down here, the US is 1) Sending their army to kill innocents. and 2)Attacking an "enemy" when they dont even have reasonable suspicion of who it was who attacked the World Trade Centres.

Now if that isnt against the laws of the entire "developed" world, then I dont know WHAT is. (maybe politicians should be declared illegal...)

[Cerek the Barbaric]

As you said, L.C., those images are being FED to you by the media.

Don't believe everything you see.

[fable]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: What solution do you propose to prevent future attacks?

That's the part no one on the international stage wants to touch--primarily because it involves changing US foreign policy, and the internal policies of a number of allied nations. The first part is a a problem the US has always had: the two political parties are intensely afraid of antagonizing Israel because of domestic votes, when a balanced mid-East policy is essential to remove the perceived image of the US as a "hater of Islam."

For the rest: you don't get a breeding ground for terrorists, after all, if you have a society with a good distribution of the wealth, good access to education, jobs and health care, and a degree of political dialog (not necessarily democratic, either).

Fundamentalism, wherever it is, is a manifestation of pain seeking its remedy in an idealized past. Take away the social causes for the pain, and fundamentalism decreases.

[Nanaki3]

I think we need to design stronger buildings to prevent anothe attack. Also stricter security because if you haven't noticed we have had security breeches.

[Smeagol II]

First of all Magik i'm sorry if my post suggested that i have any kind of sympathy for the Al-Queda. I see a murder as a murder whether it was in pursuit of ideological goals or otherwise. And i believe the men responsible should be killed but i can't see how having a "War on Terrorism" will help one bit.

You say that America tries to make sure as few inocents die as possible but you have killed 5 times more innocent Afgans than you have members of Al-Queda.

Also you say that you must kill these men because of the way they treat women, of course what they are doing is dispicable but this has been happening for a long long time and you only act when you were attacked. If America really saw this as an issue then they would have been trying to stop it a long time ago.

Please don't take any of this personally it is just how i see it and there is no such thing as an entirely correct arguement as no-one can have all the facts.

[ 03-29-2002, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Smeagol II ]

[khazadman]

how would you solve the problem then smeagol?you can't play nice with thugs these bastards.playing nice is what got the israelis where they are today.
my father taught me that if someone hits you,hit them back harder.if someone tries to kill you you kill them.

Originally posted by Smeagol II: First of all Magik i'm sorry if my post suggested that i have any kind of sympathy for the Al-Queda. I see a murder as a murder whether it was in pursuit of ideological goals or otherwise. And i believe the men responsible should be killed but i can't see how having a "War on Terrorism" will help one bit. You say that America tries to make sure as few inocents die as possible but you have killed 5 times more innocent Afgans than you have members of Al-Queda. Also you say that you must kill these men because of the way they treat women, of course what they are doing is dispicable but this has been happening for a long long time and you only act when you were attacked. If America really saw this as an issue then they would have been trying to stop it a long time ago. Please don't take any of this personally it is just how i see it and there is no such thing as an entirely correct arguement as no-one can have all the facts.

Ok Smeagol (or Gollum hehehehe) I try never to take things said in debate personally, but I have been guilty of and been duely chastised for being a bit vehement in my replies, so I want to ensure you realised I wasn't attacking you and that any negative emmotion you might detect is directed at terrorists. Now to respond

The "War on Terrorism" helps in many ways, one is that it kills the blood thirsty SOB's who commit and volunteer to commit the atrocities of terrorism. Two it sends a STRONG message that "If you mess with us we are gonna lay the SMACKDOWN on you and you will loose more than you gain". In dealing with terrorists it is like dealing with a bully in school. If you run in fear, or run to a teacher, you show your self to be a weak target and invite future attacks on you.

Your numbers of 5 times more innocent casualties than terror Al-queda or taliban casulties is wrong. And you cant seperate the Taliban form the Al-queda since they were virtually one in the same...with one supplying resources and shelter to the other. I don't have the exact numbers on hand but there have been only a handful or reported US caused casualties that were not intentionally targeted.

I say you must kill these men because of how they treat women and children, because of how they devalue life and target innocents rather than military or political targets. As men and leaders of the defense of the USA, the Government and the Military must attack these scum wherever and whenever they can be targeted.

Personally it is my own personal belief that the Taliban, the Al-queda and all governments and organizations that back them have abrogated their right to exist, to breathe to do anything but fertilize the grounds as little bits of scrap.

There [img]smile.gif[/img] Im done, and no I didn't take any of your posts as personal, again Im just trying to address the issues and not be emmotioanlly involved [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by LennonCook: From the images the media has fed us down here, the US is 1) Sending their army to kill innocents. and 2)Attacking an "enemy" when they dont even have reasonable suspicion of who it was who attacked the World Trade Centres. Now if that isnt against the laws of the entire "developed" world, then I dont know WHAT is. (maybe politicians should be declared illegal...)

LC I'd say you need a better source of info [img]smile.gif[/img] I realize the mainstream media is pretty much all that regular people get to see, but there are a fair number of both liberal and conservative news sources out there....I personally suggest read them both then extrapolate a mid point and then you should have a fair idea of the truth. Each side believes what it says but the truth is almost always somewhere in the middle....much like in personal disputes...each side sees it self as right but from an objective neutral position usually you see the truth is in the middle.

Originally posted by fable: quote: Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: What solution do you propose to prevent future attacks?

That's the part no one on the international stage wants to touch--primarily because it involves changing US foreign policy, and the internal policies of a number of allied nations. The first part is a a problem the US has always had: the two political parties are intensely afraid of antagonizing Israel because of domestic votes, when a balanced mid-East policy is essential to remove the perceived image of the US as a "hater of Islam."

For the rest: you don't get a breeding ground for terrorists, after all, if you have a society with a good distribution of the wealth, good access to education, jobs and health care, and a degree of political dialog (not necessarily democratic, either).

Fundamentalism, wherever it is, is a manifestation of pain seeking its remedy in an idealized past. Take away the social causes for the pain, and fundamentalism decreases.[/QUOTE]In one way I sort of agree with Fable, the USA needs to change it's foreign policy..it needs to lay down the law and not be afraid to project the power that belongs to the 800lb Gorilla. The USA needs to smash every haven that exists for terrorists and let the rest of the world know that the biggest baddest MF in the world isn't going to kiss butt to any petty terorist/wanna be leader who thinks they can FORCE the civilised world to bow to their terror. There is a good thing in being the most powerful nation in the world and letting some of the rotten apples know that they exist only at our discreation. Its scary when the lion roars isn't it?

Originally posted by MagiK:
QUOTE]In one way I sort of agree with Fable, the USA needs to change it's foreign policy..][/QUOTE]

The USA and many other nations needs to ask and then address what made foreign nation terrorists in the first place. (Not as simple as it sounds I accept.)