Is it better to carry a gun or not?

[Azred]

[quote]Originally posted by Neb:

Some things MUST change Kenyth! People will always change and the laws will always need to be changed with them! The power mongers and criminals will always find it easier to exploit a system that remains one way, rather than one that changes to counter them. The american constitution is in some ways OUTDATED. If you're gonna buy guns to defend yourself anyway, what use is the police? Or the FBI? Or the rest of the law enforcement people? They're not necessary then, you've got the guns yourself. YOU go take care of your precious law. No, the reason for the law enforcement people is that they can be TRUSTED with the guns so that THEY can defend you and your loved ones. And there's noone to stop anyone from taking advantage of us, most of the time we can't even stop it ourselves. And the few times when we can guns probably won't help us. The pen IS mightier than the sword, the gun and all of the other weapons. *sigh* People complain about religious fanatics..... That's close to what some of you are, defending fanatically your "right" to bear arms and "defend yourselves".

Yes, laws need to change as a society changes, but those who wish to manipulate the system will do so whether the laws change or not.
The American Constitution may have some sections that are no longer applicable, but it cannot become "outdated"--human rights are timeless! Besides, even if something becomes "outdated" the Constitution allows itself to be amended....

Owning a gun doesn't automatically make someone a vigilante, out to enforce the law as they interpret it. Also, are you suggesting that the majority of people are not trustworthy with guns?

Should we not defend the rights that have been accorded us? Are we to let others take them away arbitrarily? Why?

[Sir Kenyth]

Originally posted by Azred:

Yes, laws need to change as a society changes, but those who wish to manipulate the system will do so whether the laws change or not. The American Constitution may have some sections that are no longer applicable, but it cannot become "outdated"--human rights are timeless! Besides, even if something becomes "outdated" the Constitution allows itself to be amended.... Owning a gun doesn't automatically make someone a vigilante, out to enforce the law as they interpret it. Also, are you suggesting that the majority of people are not trustworthy with guns? Should we not defend the rights that have been accorded us? Are we to let others take them away arbitrarily? Why?

Well said!

[Neb]

Originally posted by Azred: Yes, laws need to change as a society changes, but those who wish to manipulate the system will do so whether the laws change or not. The American Constitution may have some sections that are no longer applicable, but it cannot become "outdated"--human rights are timeless! Besides, even if something becomes "outdated" the Constitution allows itself to be amended....

Human rights are timeless, yes. And yes, you DO have the right to defend yourself. But not necessarily with lethal force. Learn some form of self defense, buy a stun gun or pepper spray. Don't buy a gun. Anyone who wishes to kill you from a distance, or starts running down the street shooting madly in all directions you don't have much chance of killing before he kills you anyway.

Originally posted by Azred: Owning a gun doesn't automatically make someone a vigilante, out to enforce the law as they interpret it. Also, are you suggesting that the majority of people are not trustworthy with guns?

Yes, the majority of people are not trustworthy with guns. The majority of people are a vast assembly if fools and idiots. Morons who can hardly be trusted with a piece of paper, much less a lethal weapon. And no, it does not automatically make someone a vigilante, but it automatically makes it a lot easier for them to kill someone. Even if they acquire it legally, and are perfectly legal with it at first there might some day arise something that makes them want to do something illegal with it, out of revenge for example. Or just pure hatred.

Originally posted by Azred: Should we not defend the rights that have been accorded us? Are we to let others take them away arbitrarily? Why?

We should defend our rights, yes. And our right to defend ourselves, of course. Our right to bear arms however, is not a basic human right. Even though criminals will still be able to get guns through other sources if they're banned it WILL be more difficult for them I believe.

And IF they are to be sold in gun stores then I believe that anyone who wishes to own one MUST undergo a severe mental checkup, they must also NEVER have committed even the SLIGHTEST crime. Or have any tendencies towards violence. Guns should only be sold to those who have no intention of using them whatsoever.

[Spelca]

Originally posted by Neb: And IF they are to be sold in gun stores then I believe that anyone who wishes to own one MUST undergo a severe mental checkup, they must also NEVER have committed even the SLIGHTEST crime. Or have any tendencies towards violence. Guns should only be sold to those who have no intention of using them whatsoever.

Yep, I agree. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Sir Kenyth]

Originally posted by Neb: quote: Originally posted by Azred: Yes, laws need to change as a society changes, but those who wish to manipulate the system will do so whether the laws change or not. The American Constitution may have some sections that are no longer applicable, but it cannot become "outdated"--human rights are timeless! Besides, even if something becomes "outdated" the Constitution allows itself to be amended....

Human rights are timeless, yes. And yes, you DO have the right to defend yourself. But not necessarily with lethal force. Learn some form of self defense, buy a stun gun or pepper spray. Don't buy a gun. Anyone who wishes to kill you from a distance, or starts running down the street shooting madly in all directions you don't have much chance of killing before he kills you anyway.

Originally posted by Azred: Owning a gun doesn't automatically make someone a vigilante, out to enforce the law as they interpret it. Also, are you suggesting that the majority of people are not trustworthy with guns?

Yes, the majority of people are not trustworthy with guns. The majority of people are a vast assembly if fools and idiots. Morons who can hardly be trusted with a piece of paper, much less a lethal weapon. And no, it does not automatically make someone a vigilante, but it automatically makes it a lot easier for them to kill someone. Even if they acquire it legally, and are perfectly legal with it at first there might some day arise something that makes them want to do something illegal with it, out of revenge for example. Or just pure hatred.

Originally posted by Azred: Should we not defend the rights that have been accorded us? Are we to let others take them away arbitrarily? Why?

We should defend our rights, yes. And our right to defend ourselves, of course. Our right to bear arms however, is not a basic human right. Even though criminals will still be able to get guns through other sources if they're banned it WILL be more difficult for them I believe.

And IF they are to be sold in gun stores then I believe that anyone who wishes to own one MUST undergo a severe mental checkup, they must also NEVER have committed even the SLIGHTEST crime. Or have any tendencies towards violence. Guns should only be sold to those who have no intention of using them whatsoever.[/QUOTE]Neb, bearing arms IS defending yourself. Self defense is not an option for many without a firearm. A 90 lb. female is not going to be able to handle a 200+ lb. assailant no matter what she learns. The elderly are generally not in the condition to throw punches. Pepper spray is good! It works well! Stun guns are generally worthless unless you can overpower the assailant to begin with. A large man can take a torso hit with the average 100,000 volt stun gun easily. Professional batons are a different story. They are large, expensive, and unweildy though. Stunners are fairly useless in wet weather because your own hand can get zapped. A firearm is the only sure bet in any case.

[SSJ4Sephiroth]

Has anybody in here ever heard the phrase "violence isn't the answer"? If you're stopped on the street, why can't you just run? You don't have to pull a gun out and shoot the person, just run. There are solutions other to fighting, or even killing, if you stop to think about it. I understand that in some situations it's not plausible though. In that case, there are still solutions other than a firearm. Like Neb said, a stungun or pepper spray work just as well at repelling attackers and they won't kill a person.

[Azred]

Originally posted by Neb: Yes, the majority of people are not trustworthy with guns. The majority of people are a vast assembly if fools and idiots. Morons who can hardly be trusted with a piece of paper, much less a lethal weapon.

Or a computer.

Originally posted by Neb: And no, it does not automatically make someone a vigilante, but it automatically makes it a lot easier for them to kill someone. Even if they acquire it legally, and are perfectly legal with it at first there might some day arise something that makes them want to do something illegal with it, out of revenge for example. Or just pure hatred.

Anyone having the desire to kill hardly needs a gun. A knife will suffice, as will a set of keys, their shoelaces, a drinking straw, a chopstick, or even a tube of ChapStik. Certainly we cannot restrict all these items....

Originally posted by Neb: We should defend our rights, yes. And our right to defend ourselves, of course. Our right to bear arms however, is not a basic human right.

Point well taken. Guns are not an intrinsic right.

Originally posted by Neb: Even though criminals will still be able to get guns through other sources if they're banned it WILL be more difficult for them I believe. And IF they are to be sold in gun stores then I believe that anyone who wishes to own one MUST undergo a severe mental checkup, they must also NEVER have committed even the SLIGHTEST crime. Or have any tendencies towards violence. Guns should only be sold to those who have no intention of using them whatsoever.

The "slightest" crime? Even jaywalking or littering? How about violating the leash law at the city park with your dog?

How much of a tendency towards violence is acceptable? Is playing "animated violence" video games enough?

Who determines when someone will have "no inention of using them [guns] whatsoever"? Psi-Corps? How many shooting rampages have happened in the last decade from people who others thought would never have done something like that in a million years?

[Horatio]

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: Let me rephrase that comment. "Properly locked" is much better. A loaded gun should be in the immediate possession of a responsible adult! A properly stored gun around children would be unloaded and in a steel gun safe with a secure combination lock. Putting the cable lock on the gun wouldn't be a bad idea either. A loaded gun on a high shelf in a breadbox is NOT properly secured!

Yes, but then if someone is in your house and you have to go hunting round for the trigger, bullets and handle of a gun, what is the point of having one in the first place?
I am against them.

[Azred]

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: Stun guns are generally worthless unless you can overpower the assailant to begin with. A large man can take a torso hit with the average 100,000 volt stun gun easily.

Over the weekend I heard a news story where a test was done with security folks simulating hijacking a plane. The crew was armed with stun guns, but failed to stop even one simulated hijacker. Not good.

[Elif Godson]

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: quote: Originally posted by Spelca: quote: Originally posted by Elif Godson: I personally wouldnt carry a fire arm, although one for the home is fine as long as you keep it locked up and out of the way of children. ...

Unfortunately children can go anywhere, no matter how many locks you put on. In Slovenia a little girl was shot by her brother (by accident) when they were playing with a gun. The gun was locked, and in a high place, but the children got to it anyway. No matter what you do, having a gun at home when you have children is not safe.[/QUOTE]Let me rephrase that comment. "Properly locked" is much better. A loaded gun should be in the immediate possession of a responsible adult! A properly stored gun around children would be unloaded and in a steel gun safe with a secure combination lock. Putting the cable lock on the gun wouldn't be a bad idea either. A loaded gun on a high shelf in a breadbox is NOT properly secured![/QUOTE]Uhm yeah, what he said , just so you all know I also have a variety of martial weapons in my house, half of are stored in a steel storage
case with a combination lock that only quantum physist and myself can unlock, unless of course you have a cutting torch ...oh yeah, I have one of those too...doh. I guess I am just screwed. I can see it now, my daughters sneaking out into the garage and dragging this 200 lb. contraption back into the house and getting into my locked office
and them firing up this torch to cut it open. Putting some spare karate suit's I have around and wrapping there head's so they look like ninja's and then going on a killing spree
somehow I dont think so. I take my responsability for my children varie seriously hell even the ammo for my gun is stored in another totaly differnt place. the gun has a lock on the trigger system that James Bond would be hard pressed to pick and the only reason I have it is because my father gave it to me. As for my sword's there all peace notted and rarely if ever come out. the only real waepon's I have out in the open are my shinai's, which is comprable to any run of the mill baseball bat. So if you are smart parent and keep track of your "items" no child should ever get shot by your own hand gun in your own house while playing cop's and robber's. Unfortunatly there are a bunch of moron's out there who have high powered fire arms sitting out in the open in there home's with children running about.
and this is where the accidental shooting's generally happen.
Remeber this, the gun is only as smart as the owner, I dont know if this makes sense to you all but it is a very true observation.