Chemical weapons

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: Your hands are as muddy as the rest. Do you purchase products? Are you not part of the capitalist system? By paying taxes, spending money, voting/not voting, you are part of the problem as much as the next person. It is impossible to have you hands clean, much as you would like them to be.

My hands are as clean as I can get them, thats what I said, so dont pretend I said otherwise. [/QUOTE]But they're not. Are you spending any money on products owned by companies that make weapons? Check and make sure. Otherwise your dollar is helping fund what you're opposing. [/QUOTE]What part of my hands are as clean as I can get them do you not understand? What do you think that means? That I consciously buy products and invest in companies that perpetuate the military industrial complex? You have picked an arguement with a social responible activist investor who indeed screens his investments to insure they arent going into the war industry. AS CLEAN AS I CAN GET THEM MEANS AS CLEAN AS I CAN GET THEM.

http://www.socialinvest.org/areas/sriguide/

Are you happy now, or do you want to carry on. Whats your motive here Yorick? Do you want to prove that I have as much blood on my conscience as you? Go for it. It still stands I opposed the war and I oppose violence. I oppose the actions that killed thousands of innocents and combatents alike.

I can pretend my tax dollars went to anything but the war machine, I get my voice on the matter and my goverment pays for more than just war with those dollars. I can't get my hands TOTALLY CLEAN and still use the system to change it from within, or I would have said MY HANDS ARE TOTALLY CLEAN FROM THE VIOLENCE OF WAR. That doesnt mean my conscious principles are sacrificed or abandoned. It doesn't mean I am a hypocrite because I truly believe thou shall not kill and violence begets violence. Nope, I walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

[Animal]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: quote: Washington sent a very clear weapon to Iraqi commanders when it went to war - "Use chemical weapons and you *will* be tried for war crimes!" And then what does the US military do?

I dont see what all the fuss is about. Napalm is an incendiary munition, NOT a chemical weapon. Firebombs are in the same category as the F.A.E. bomb and the daisy cutter bomb.They explode and burn everything in their kill radius. A chem. weapon would be something mustard gas or blister gas. [/QUOTE]Napalm has been banned by most nations for a reason it's nasty stuff, just ask some vets from Vietnam. The ONLY reason napalm is not considered a WoMD or a chemical weapon is because the US still uses it.

http://www.infotrad.clara.co.uk/anti...mes/index.html

"The first napalm was developed by American technicians of the Chemical Corps during the Second World War."

"I do not have definitive statistics, but it seems that only about thirty per cent of those wounded by napalm and not killed outright can be saved. If the victim does survive, the dermatological consequences of napalm burns are especially serious. After the surgery there is a great risk of superinfections. Poor grafting also leaves serious after-effects. Retractile skin and contraction of scars form huge welts which will need further treatment. Keloid and hypertrophic scars will form to limit and inhibit the normal elasticity of the skin, which in turn inhibits the normal movement {198} of the member. These scars are prone to pyodermic and microdermic infections. The new skin is extremely fragile, and scleroatrophied skin will always be susceptible to minor infections that a normal skin would easily combat."

Primary effect:

There are five degrees of burn:

1st degree: outer skin only

2nd degree: to inner layer of outer skin

3rd degree: to inner layer of inner skin

4th degree: to deepest hypodermic layer

5th degree: to muscle

Burn victims of napalm do not experience 1st degree burns due to the adhesive properties of napalm that stick to the skin. 85% of burn victims experience 4th or 5th degree burns. The pain is so excruciating that people have died from the pain alone.

Two thirds of victims have burns covering 25% of their body. If a body has burns covering 50% of their body and 20% of the burns are 4th or 5th degree burns then death is almost certain. Victims who recover from 4th or 5th degree burns develop hideous scars called keloids which also bring about motor disturbances.

Secondary effects:

A large amount of carbon monoxide is produced once a napalm bomb is set off. It makes it very hard for people to breath which causes them to pass out and burn. Carbon monoxide poisoning itself can be serious. Disturbances of the nervous system, insomnia, weakness and low temperature are common symptoms.

Napalm victims also suffer from burned windpipes and shock. Bones can alter themselves and sometimes blood and internal organs are affected.


Still think that napalm is okay?

[johnny]

Well, it's still not comparable with agents imho. Sure, it's a horrible tool, but so is a daisy cutter, or even a Bouncing Betty. War is no picknick.

[Animal]

Originally posted by johnny: Well, it's still not comparable with agents imho. Sure, it's a horrible tool, but so is a daisy cutter, or even a Bouncing Betty. War is no picknick.

Chemical and biological weapons are banned because of the horror caused by their usage. Napalm's cost on humanity is no different than any other chemical weapon, imho.

[johnny]

Originally posted by Animal: quote: Originally posted by johnny: Well, it's still not comparable with agents imho. Sure, it's a horrible tool, but so is a daisy cutter, or even a Bouncing Betty. War is no picknick.

Chemical and biological weapons are banned because of the horror caused by their usage. Napalm's cost on humanity is no different than any other chemical weapon, imho. [/QUOTE]Well, let's ban the entire militairy and everything involved then.

[Sir Taliesin]

If it keeps me from being killed on the battlefield, YEAP!!!

[Skunk]

It's also a Pandora's box that's been opened.
WMD's (by anyone's definition - apart from the US/UK) have been used both in Afghanistan and now Iraq - and in Iraq serious chemical munitions were used.

The message being sent around the world is clear - WMD's and chemical weapons are legitimate in war - if the US ever attacks you it will have no hesitation using them first - so you better make sure that you develop your own stocks of the stuff.

No doubt that countries feeling threatened by the US (for whatever reason), like Syria, Iran, North Korea etc have now put their factories into overdrive to get as much of the stuff ready as possible (and possibly are working as hard as possible to get nuclear protection too).

Welcome to the New World Order - forty years of progress flushed down the toilet.

[ 08-11-2003, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

[johnny]

Progress ? What progress ?

[Timber Loftis]

Yorick, if my hands are "muddy as the rest" just because I continue to live my life, then you've created a tall order for your general populace. One that requires those on any side of an issue shut out life, march against the establishment, and refuse to buy anything -- in the modern day USA, resulting in death of course. It is an order you cannot and do not live up to.

As for the Napalm, do we really consider it a "chemical weapon." I mean, if that's the case, then isn't EVERY weapon a "chemical weapon?" Where do we draw the line?

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Skunk: Welcome to the New World Order - forty years of progress flushed down the toilet. [/QB]

Sadly the 40 some-odd years of progress was only due to MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). With the neo-cons in power here and the fact a large part of their agenda is to forestall any other country form being able to rival the US as a world power I only see things getting worse. The administration already has the nuke labs working on low-yeild ground pentrating nucs, so called 'bunker busters'. Making the likely hood of use of nukes in battle much higher.