Nobel laureates oppose war against Iraq

[Moiraine]

More than 40 Nobel laureates have signed together a declaration opposing "a preventive war against Iraq without broad international support". [img]smile.gif[/img]

Here.

The world has crowned these people for their outstanding apport to humanity. Shouldn't we listen to their collective wisdom ? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Indemaijinj]

You should know by now that the majority of humanity doesn't care that much about humanity in the end.

Moiraine, Nobel laurates are acknowledged for their expertise in a specific filed. Seeking their thoughts about war and the dangers posed by Saddam is akin to asking Barbara Streisand for her opinion on how a war should be fought...or even IF it should be fought.

Like it or not, the only people really qualified to make the decisions are those who have access to the highest levels of intelligence material....aka heads of state and the Military type advisors. Hollywood actors, and nuclear physicists have no more knowledge of the issue than your average man on the street....or at least thats how I see it.

Edit: Just out of curiosity, where were these notables when Saddam Hussein gassed the Kurds in norther Iraq? and why didn't they go to Iran as Human shields when The US was helping Iraq in its war against Iran (where chemical and bioagents were used by Iraq)?

And where the Heck were all the hollywood stars when Clinton used cruise missiles to blow up an asprin factory?

Sorry....just some things I was wondering but are really off topic I suppose.

[ 02-28-2003, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Moiraine]

MagiK, I was expecting a reply like that. So I have another link for you : here. It dates back from October 11th 2002, but you cannot say a former US president doubled by a Nobel Peace prize winner doesn't know what he is talking about ?

Actually yes I can.

It was made clear that the reason Carter received his "prize" was to slap Bush.
If they really wanted him to have that prize it would have come much sooner.
It is also arguable that the man you are talking about was one of the least effective leaders of his time. He accomplished less than any president in the second half of the 20th century. I will agree that at one time he had access to intel information but that was 22 years ago or so and has had no recent intel briefings. Again, at this stage of his life, Ol' JC has no more value of opinion than you or I do.

[ 02-28-2003, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by MagiK: Actually yes I can. It was made clear that the reason Carter received his "prize" was to slap Bush. If they really wanted him to have that prize it would have come much sooner. It is also arguable that the man you are talking about was one of the least effective leaders of his time. He accomplished less than any president in the second half of the 20th century. I will agree that at one time he had access to intel information but that was 22 years ago or so and has had no recent intel briefings. Again, at this stage of his life, Ol' JC has no more value of opinion than you or I do.

Hell, no - he is a professional politician, which neither of us are. You have often supported the stance that professionals know better than common people, why not this one professional guy ?

Your personal opinion about M. Carter contradicts that of the Nobel committee - they awarded him the Nobel prize for "decades of untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development". Is that a small accomplishment ?

Are you saying that the Nobel institution is wrong ?

EDIT : Spelling.

[ 02-28-2003, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Moiraine ]

Originally posted by Moiraine: Hell, no - he is a professional politician, which neither of us are. You have often supported the stance that professionals know better than common people, why not this one professional guy ? Your personal opinion about M. Carter contradicts that of the Nobel committee - they awarded him the Nobel prize for "decades of untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development". Is that a small accomplishment ? Are you saying that the Nobel institution is wrong ? EDIT : Spelling.

Despite your vehement disagreement, my statement stands, he has no special knowledge of this situation than you or I. All of his knowledge about the real situation comes from the same place yours and mine does. He gets no intel briefing, no secrect or top secret morning briefs...he just reads the papers like the rest of us.

I am quite well aware of why they said they gave him the award..they said in quotes, it was to give a slap to bresident Bush.

Has carter worked on some good things? yep. But if the timing had been different the peace prize would have gone to someone else.

Carter is a professional [politician this is true...which means he is an expert at telling people what they want to hear and at raising money and in fooling people. There is no "special power" inherent in politicians that tells them wether a nation posseses WoMD or not. There is no special Poly-Sci class titled "WoMD detection and Omniscient revelationing" it just doesnt exist.

Edit: spelling and typo's

[ 02-28-2003, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by MagiK: Despite your vehement disagreement, my statement stands, he has no special knowledge of this situation than you or I. All of his knowledge about the real situation comes from the same place yours and mine does. He gets no intel briefing, no secrect or top secret morning briefs...he just reads the papers like the rest of us.

So, after all, years of training and experience are not significant to give weight to someone's opinion ?

Originally posted by MagiK: I am quite well aware of why they said they gave him the award..they said in quotes, it was to give a slap to bresident Bush.

You have not read the full article then. Read again. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by MagiK: Has carter worked on some good things? yep. But if the timing had been different the peace prize would have gone to someone else.

Sure. And if he had died in an accident before the Nobel ceremony, that would have happened too.

What good is a Nobel prize if it does not refer to the current world situation ? Would you give a Nobel prize to Caesar ? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by MagiK: Carter is a professional [politician this is true...which means he is an expert at telling people what they want to hear and at raising money and in fooling people. There is no "special power" inherent in politicians that tells them wether a nation posseses WoMD or not. There is no special Poly-Sci class titled "WoMD detection and Omniscient revelationing" it just doesnt exist. Edit: spelling and typo's

I was using the word 'politician' in his French sense - no negative connotation, just meaning 'someone who works in politics'.
Sure "there is no 'special power' inherent in politicians that tells them wether a nation posseses WoMD or not". That is why the UN appointed a team of inspectors to bring the information. That is why it is better to listen to them BEFORE we make an opinion.

Originally posted by Moiraine: [Sure. And if he had died in an accident before the Nobel ceremony, that would have happened too. What good is a Nobel prize if it does not refer to the current world situation ? Would you give a Nobel prize to Caesar ? [img]smile.gif[/img] Im not aware that being a great at conquest was Nobel material [img]smile.gif[/img] of course that also depends on which Ceasar you are talking about..some of them were complete morons. I was using the word 'politician' in his French sense - no negative connotation, just meaning 'someone who works in politics'. Sure "there is no 'special power' inherent in politicians that tells them wether a nation posseses WoMD or not". That is why the UN appointed a team of inspectors to bring the information. That is why it is better to listen to them BEFORE we make an opinion.

Ok you posted a couple of different Ideas here. First. the inspectors are NOT there to find WoMD. The Inspecotrs are and were ONLY charged to ensure that Iraq has Completely and honestly disarmed...they have not. People keep trying to twist the Job of the inspectors into new things but they really were ment only to verify the disarmament, not be detectives trying to feeret out hidden materials.

About Politicians, if the person has a working knowledge and has been kept up to date onn issues then yes they should have a greater influence, but if the guy has spent 99% of his recent time traveling, writing books, building homes for the poor and out of the loop for the classified info..then yes that makes his opinion of no real value other than from an academic point of view.

10,000,000 people protesting an action can all be wrong, because they do not have all the facts....or have distorted facts or are plain stupid...numbers do not make a cause right, numbers do not necessarily equate to corectness, it just means a lot of people have the same opinion and opinions are like bung holes, every keg has one and they all smell.

Edit: really bad grammar and spellin errors...*sigh*

[ 02-28-2003, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by MagiK: Im not aware that being a great at conquest was Nobel material [img]smile.gif[/img] of course that also depends on which Ceasar you are talking about..some of them were complete morons.

I was referring to Caesar as someone who had a big political influence on the world centuries ago. Many of them will do. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by MagiK: Ok you posted a couple of different Ideas here. First. the inspectors are NOT there to find WoMD. The Inspecotrs are and were ONLY charged to ensure that Iraq has Completely and honestly disarmed...they have not. People keep trying to twist the Job of the inspectors into new things but they really were ment only to verify the disarmament, not be detectives trying to feeret out hidden materials.

Then the nations can even less base that war on Iraq having or not WOMD. Since they cannot base a decision on information they don't have. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by MagiK: About Politicians, if the person has a working knowledge and has been kept up to date onn issues then yes they should have a greater influence, but if the guy has spent 99% of his recent time traveling, writing books, building homes for the poor and out of the loop for the classified info..then yes that makes his opinion of no real value other than from an academic point of view.

Well, not exactly. He has enough relations to keep in touch, and he has enough experience to know the inside of world politics and to keep better informed than we could, and he has enough notoriety to be able to speak to influential political personnalities. Which he had to do anyway to take care of developping programs for poor people all over the world. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by MagiK: 10,000,000 people protesting an action can all be wrong, because they do not have all the facts....or have distorted facts or are plain stupid...numbers do not make a cause right, numbers do not necessarily equate to corectness, it just means a lot of people have the same opinion and opinions are like bung holes, every keg has one and they all smell. Edit: really bad grammar and spellin errors...*sigh*

That is a funny comment related to the suggestion you posted on GD that the US should have as many votes in the UN as they have states.